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Hi. My name is Cat. I am new here... :) I was just wondering what each of you beleve being "saved" is. I kno what I believe, and I kno that people have MANY different beliefs on what that word actually means, so I was just wondering exaclty what each of you believe. I hope I get to know you guys. :)

God Bless,
-Cat

Hi Cat,

The answer to this question can be found in the following thread:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=5250.0

To me being saved was Jesus Christ stretching out his hand to grab hold of me and keep me from the eternity that I deserve.Then knowing that I would continue to sin and mess up as long as I was on this earth,promise to never leave me. Always beside me, always my comfort, always my friend.

I am so Blessed :)

While baptism should follow conversion (being saved), it is not necessary for salvation. I don't know if you meant to say it is necessary but I think it is important to know that salvation was finished at Calvary.

Amen!

That depends on your religion. I am Baptist and believe baptism is necessary. If not necessary to obtain salvation then it should still be seen as a way to become closer to God. Either way, being baptized isn't a bad thing. ;D

First I want to mention that we don't do denominations here. Christians are of the body of Christ. One body one church ..... 

Second I was raised in a Baptist church. Baptism is not a requirement of salvation. Baptism is extended to those that have already professed their salvation as an outward sign of their faith. Their are many people that have accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour that are not able to be baptized due to a physical condition. We also see where Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be together in paradise. If baptism were absolutely necessary for salvation then that would make Jesus a liar and we all know that Jesus does not lie.

AMEN!! Pastor Roger

Hey, Cat,

Us old guys have to boil everything down and not waste time - it's precious to us as The End approaches.  We have already wasted too much of it.

The word believe is used in my NKJV NT 148 times - half those are in RED, and you know what that means.

I must do what The Word commands to be assured of my salvation, so every one of those "believe" commands will be followed by me as He empowers me through His Holy Spirit.

Don't ask us, Cat, read what He says and do it, and He will give you the power to do it.

"Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.  But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."   James 1:21-22  NKJV


Can you say AMEN?

doc

Not to that, Doc. Ephesians 2:8,9 makes it clear that salvation comes by GRACE through faith..."

Grace, man, grace. I repeat...grace. Five little letters (in our language). Not grace and works. Not grace and deeds. Not grace and anything else. Just grace. Even the faith that brings grace is from God, not from within ourselves.

If you teach that salvation requires works/deeds for assurance, you teach heresy. This is not an opinion. It is fact drawn from the Word of God.

Then you believe a lie. I hate yo be so blunt but truth is, by nature, offensive.

(NIV) LUKE 23: 40-43
 
But the other criminal rebuked him.  "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence?  We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deed deserve.  But this man has done nothing wrong."  Then he said, " Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."  Jesus answered him, " I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Blessings!
-Am-

Greetings, Len,

I understand your pov re:grace, I am glad for it also.

 Luther couldn't handle James either.  He wanted to heat his home with it and stuck it as the last book before Revelations in his German translation from the Greek.

Nevertheless we must include James "Spirit Breathed" writings too.  Faith without works (read: Spirit directed works) is dead !

The Hebrew writer proved that there is such a thing as uninspired works - a huge problem among the milk Christian and the unsaved.

"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God..."    Hebrews 6:1   NKJV
This does indeed refer to the old Hebrew sacrificial practices which were merit based, but it also applies to poorly motivated works among born again Christians today.


What did James say?  "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works , is dead.   But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works ." Show me your faith without your works , and I will show you my faith by my works .  You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble!   But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?   
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works , and by works faith was made perfect?  And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.  You see then that a man is justified by works , and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?  For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."    James 2:17-26  NKJV


These verses have to be taught and lived out while kept in balance with Paul's teachings of "faith/grace only".  Paul is addressing the salvation process - James speaks of the Christian lifestyle and world view.

No heresy intended here, Len, simply progressive sanctification, which is expected (by God) of all of us.

In Christ,
doc

The book of James is best understood by reading what Jesus had to say in Luke 6 in the parable of the fruit. A person will be known by their fruits. "Good works are not a requirement of salvation but rather a result of salvation." A statement not found directly in the Bible yet one that is there all the same. A person that is saved will have the desire to do what is good in the eyes of God and should feel remorse (guilt) in any failure to do so.

So far, all your Scripture quotes say nothing about works being a requirement for salvation but a result of salvation. And, yes we were made to do good works. That is what worship is...good works resulting from salvation. Our purpose in creation is the worship of Almighty God. If we have faith that God is real, but do not worship Him, we are as the demons who believe and shudder but are damned to eternal hell. That is faith without works friend.

But we have a positional sanctification...eternal life upon trusting Christ as Savior, forever sealed with the Holy Spirit. But if we want to have fellowship with the Father, we are expected to repent our sins as we commit them. This avails us to God's will and His blessings in our dailey lives.

Brothers and Sisters,

No man or woman has ever been justified by the Law or works - just the opposite - they have been condemned by them.

Galatians 2:18-21 NASB  "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Galatians 3:6-12 NASB  Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

Galatians 3:22-27 NASB  But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

The works required for Salvation were complete perfectly by JESUS CHRIST on the Cross. No man or woman has anything of worth to add to the already completed and perfect Work of JESUS. Many works are required under the Law, and no works are required under the Gospel of the Grace of God. Salvation is not on the installment payment plan.

A Christians works are only considered good if they are done in love, not as duty, not for personal recognition, and certainly not for Salvation. If a man or woman lives under law and works, they must live under all of it, and their actions would make the death of CHRIST on the Cross in vain. Justification is by faith alone in JESUS CHRIST. HE is the only WAY.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 NASB  For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Brothers and Sisters,

Grace vs. Works - Part 1

This is portions of a little mini-study I prepared some time ago on Romans 11:6. The focus of the study is on "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS". As usual, I have no desire to debate this topic. I would simply ask that you read this with an open mind and heart. If you reach a different conclusion, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Romans 11:6 NASB  But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

The key words in this Scripture are "grace" and "works".

G5485 (Grace)
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy). Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

Note on Grace:  Scores of other Scriptures clearly indicate that unmerited favor and a gift that is not deserved or earned is the most appropriate definition of "grace" in Romans 11:6 and many other precious portions of Scripture.

G2041 (Work)
(a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work. Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
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Compare:

2 Timothy 1:6 NASB  For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
2 Timothy 1:7 NASB  For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.
2 Timothy 1:8 NASB  Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,
2 Timothy 1:9 NASB  who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
2 Timothy 1:10 NASB  but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

Romans 3:27 NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Romans 3:28 NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 5:20 NASB  The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Romans 5:21 NASB  so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:10 NASB  But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

Galatians 2:21 NASB  "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Galatians 5:4 NASB  You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Ephesians 2:4 NASB  But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 NASB  even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Ephesians 2:6 NASB  and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Ephesians 2:7 NASB  so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8 NASB  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 NASB  not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

==========================See Part 2

Grace vs. Works - Part 2

2 Timothy 1:9 NASB  who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5 NASB  He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

The above and many other precious portions of Scripture clearly prove that the Grace of God is a GIFT, one that can never be deserved, earned, or paid for on the installment plan. God's GIFT is not an extension of credit that must be either paid for or returned. The full payment was made at THE CROSS. Any man who thinks that he can add to the PERFECT SACRIFICE OF JESUS with man's righteousness or man's works is insulting our Lord and Saviour.
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Those who try to use other portions of the New Testament to prove that works are required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation neglect to consider the writer, the purpose, the audience, the time, and THE CROSS.

James is one of the most consistently misused and abused in trying to prove that works are required for Salvation or the maintenance of Salvation. There were many devout Christian Jews of the time who still had strong bonds to Mosaic Law. James and many others of the time were known for fairly strong legalistic leanings. The bonds to Mosaic Law were not cut overnight. Formal and informal councils were necessary to address these bonds.

James 1:1 NASB  James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
James 1:2 NASB  Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
James 1:3 NASB  knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

James 1:1-3 above should make it apparent that Christian Jews were the intended audience for the book of James.

One could and should ask if churches of the time were of one mind regarding Mosaic Law. The obvious answer was "NO", and the answer is still "NO" today. A companion topic, "works", had the same questions and the same answers. One could and should also ask the question, "Was there a difference in teaching between primarily Jewish Christian Churches and primarily Gentile Christian Churches"? The obvious answer was "YES!". There were formal and informal councils of the time to address these differences.

Acts 21:18 NASB  And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
Acts 21:19 NASB  After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
Acts 21:20 NASB  And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
Acts 21:21 NASB  and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
Acts 21:22 NASB  "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Acts 21:23 NASB  "Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Acts 21:24 NASB  take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
Acts 21:25 NASB  "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."
Acts 21:26 NASB  Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

If one rightly divides the Word of Truth, there are NO contradictions in comparing James with Ephesians. However, James remains a popular argument for those who wish to:  (1) Rely on self-righteousness instead of yielding to the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JESUS CHRIST; and/or (2) Hold on to all or part of the law for Salvation; and/or (3) Add man's pitiful works to the PERFECT SACRIFICE AND BLOOD OF JESUS AT THE CROSS.

=============See Part 3

Grace vs. Works - Part 3

There are many other portions of Scripture that appear to contradict each other, but there are no contradictions in the Holy Bible. There may even appear to be contradictions from one chapter to the next in the same book, but there are no contradictions. This is simply a failure to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

As another example, what might you think that 1 John 1:4 means?

1 John 1:4 NASB  These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

What might you think that 1 John 2:4 means?

1 John 2:4 NASB  The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Wait, you can't make up your mind yet. What does 1 John 1:8 mean?

1 John 1:8 NASB  If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Well, it appears that we are all liars, that we all sin, and the truth can't be in us, so does this mean that we are all lost? Wait, don't make up your mind yet. What about 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:1-2.

1 John 1:9 NASB  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1 NASB  My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
1 John 2:2 NASB  and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

The members of the audience are Christians already. There are no contradictions in 1 John. A student of 1 John doesn't have a chance of understanding it unless they consider the purpose of the writer and the audience it is intended for. One must also read the entire book of 1 John. Anything less would be a total failure to rightly divide the Word of Truth. One would be claiming contradictions that don't exist. Further, there are no contradictions in comparing 1 John with Ephesians.
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Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 NASB  For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Amen Brother Tom!