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1 corinthians 14:34

Oh boy... :-\

Where in the bible does it say that women should be preachers?

I agree wth Tibby.  "Oh boy".
But might as well add this scripture also. [1 Tim. 2.12].

This has been hashed several times.  Here (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=241) is the last one

Where in the bible does it say that women should be school teachers, or bank managers, or church flower ladies?

What are 'church flower ladies'??

Probably an English phenomenon.  Old ladies with blue rinses in cardegans who arrange the flowers etc in church.

The bible verses referred to ebia, are about exercising authority over men.

In the Episcopal gay minister controversy this summer, one lady on network news said, "You didn't say anything when we ordained women ministers."(in 1976).

Statistically, women approve more of homosexuals than men do.  This is understandable.  Women can be friends much easier with them, at ease, etc.  

It's perfectly understandable then why a church increasingly peopled with women ministers, would then be very open to gay ministers.  

That's how the evil one gets his foot in the door.

It's not b/c women are any more evil than men.  It's just becuase through their peculiar sympathies, Satan can work his evil magic also.  

And so you see it happening.

And so Paul in Jabez's original scripture there above, and in 1Tim2:11,12, is fairly strict about it--obviously, now, for good reason, as we see being played out before our very eyes.

But to answer the question...  To me, it's merely a practical question.  Are there no men around, then the women will have to do it.

But if there are men around....then, ahem....

  (http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030616/mdf299454.jpg)  



 

Symphony misses the point again.  ::)

Ebia, I've noticed that you disagree with just about everybody. We're not out to discount your beliefs, we're all here to explore what God's telling us to come to a better understanding of them. A black and white approach to beliefs, excludes, rather than includes.

I sense a real resistance to submitting to God's word in you. If the bible says homosexuality is a sin then it's a sin. Instead of declaring that it isn't, (Which is playing God), it would be far more useful to try to understand what God means when He says that. Just because we don't always understand God's meaning doesn't make Him wrong. It just means we are ignorant at the time.

It's the same in the case of women. Our generation doesn't understand what God means about women's roles because our generation is a reaction to many generations of oppression against women. But someday, as we feel less oppressed, we might better understand God's meaning. The bible has timeless principles, and they will be better understood during some eras more than others.

thank you for the responses,sorry to ask a qeustion that has been asked. i should have searched first.

Lets leave this one on one side, rather than reduce all threads to the same discussion.


I'm not sure what this is aimed at.

You're assuming that your understanding of God's will is the correct one.

Ebia,are you sure enough of your opinions to attack the opinions of others? I haven't heard one intelligent discernment from you on this forum. You seem to see everything as a debate. You say you are a Christian but your lack of understanding of the bible betrays that statement. Discernment comes from the Holy Spirit. Since you have so much trouble discerning what God means, I doubt very much that you have the Holy Spirit inside you. I'm sure you'll say, "that's just your opinion." Yup, it very much is.  

Translation, "I haven't ever heard you agree with me".

Translation, "I haven't ever heard you agree with me".

Translation, "I haven't ever heard you agree with me, therefore you are ungodly because God agrees with me".

I have yet to see you agree with ANYTHING in the bible.  Maybe you should take some time to read it.  Come back when you're ready.

I'm going to say something here that I may regret.  But I do believe that attacking Ebia isn't the right course of action folks.  I agree that Ebia lacks often in her understanding of scripture...but in truth, are we any better?  I've seen a great deal of pride in Heidi and a lack of discernment there as well.  I've seen young faith in Jason that has certain lackings at times as well.  I've even seen it in those older believers.  I have witnessed immense lacking on my own part, and have been knocked down a spiritual notch or two for that matter!  But edifying the brother or sister in Christ isn't accomplished by proving our point, or even by cramming Christ's down someone's throat.  Heidi has discernment on many areas, and God is bringing her into greater understanding of Who He is.  Jason has a very mature discernment in many areas as well, and an even admirable desire to grow even further.  Remember that Paul admonishes us to "speak the truth in love."  

I disagree with Ebia on roughly 90% of what she posts!  Yet she has seen that many of us here prioritize sins.  God isn't a respecter of persons.  She has recognized this to her benefit.  Ebia's biggest difficulty right now (and I feel I can freely state this knowing she'll read it because I say so without malice) is with the authority and sufficiency of God's word.  But will insulting her bring her to the position that many of us hold?  Will she want to hold a position that we so pridefully thrust at her whether it is right or wrong?

"Speak the truth in love."  :)

Then you haven't been paying attention.

In what way(s)?

Namely very general ways.  Primarily basic understandings of salvific grace, or revelation.  These are by no means faulty, rather, they are all steps that each of us go through to the same conclusions.  These conclusions are Spirit taught via the very word we come to those basic understandings by.  If you are interested, I'd be happy to share some of them with you in an email format.  In case this may seem to be secretive, I do not mean for it to be.  I just know that if some of the readers of these posts are still drinking the "milk" of the word, then the "meat" might make them choke.  I don't want to cause someone to stumble over a matter of faith they are not yet ready to grow in.  Make sense?  If this is something that interests you, just let me know!  :)

I Corinthians 12:34 states
"Let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not permitted for them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience as the law states"

I don't see a problem with that.  It is a most debatable issue, but I believe it is nice to hear a man who is dedicated to God's Service speak.
And, it is also nice to see the ladies tend to the supper for the men.  Hey!  They can talk as much as they want then!!

Love...Tamara.

AMEN!

Geeeh...I am wondering if suzie, isn't ebias mother.


Petro

hehehehe, I doubt it suzie seems to be a little more agreeable with the bible than ebia.  THere isn't much in it she doesn't find to be a fairy tale.

It never ceases to amaze me how people don't have a hard time believing Jesus was resurrected from the dead, yet the earth in 6 days is just impossible.  Science has proved other wise.  I dare say science will show you that a man can't have Scotty beam him up either but they belive that.   ::)  Oh poor wretched man.   :-\

I think by now you have noticed that every Christian in this forum disagrees with 90% of what you say.  In fact, ebia, you yourself said that non-Christians agree with you.  Surely you're not taking the stance that everybody is wrong but you.

This forum is not representative of Christianity.

Ebia,

I would be the first to admit my frequent failures in Christian love. I think that most Christians would have to admit the same and say they are asking God for forgiveness and guidance in seeking HIS WILL in our daily lives.

You claim to be a Christian, but you appear to stand in opposition to just about all teaching from HIS HOLY WORD. Are you representative of Christianity?

In Christ,
Tom

Ebia

  this forum IS representative of Christianity today. ;)You wont find any one perfect here.  It is so representative i some times feel like i am a kid setting in one of Dads churches.. . .  small church small town basicly two familys in town ( everyone else was an outsider) and the families fought ... hehe it shouldn't be  funny  but good grief it was... Christians are just people hopefully we grow to maturity some where along HIS path. Just like kids in a family we are not the same, each one grows and develops differently. Some of us will choke on milk for ever, we will stay as babes. Most of us stay in our brat teen years way to long, you know the age when we KNOW we know more than anyone else  :P I have been blessed to know a few who gained a wonderfull maturity beautiful wisdom and a Christ like Spirit.

I may sometimes stand in opposition to your interpretation of it.

I don't see how one person can be representative of the diverstity of opinion within the Christian world.

This board, however, is skewed so heavily to conservative evangelicals that it in no way represents the broader Christian picture.

Ebia,

That term may mean different things to different people, but maybe that's a compliment. If it's the opposite of liberal, anything goes, do your own thing, and if it feels good do it, THANKS! If it is on the other end of the scale from ice cold Christian, that just might be most of us.

I guess this would be a tough subject if the wife is wearing the pants.
And some wives do a better job too when wearing the pants.

Now where can I run to?? :D

Church 3 times a week was normal and  more church was not uncommon growing up. I saw a lot of people i never met a lady preacher  who wasn't  wacked  in some way.  

We ( women) can and must share the gospel.  Every pastor needs a GODLY wife. Often hubby and wife are a team hubby is the quarterback.

Amen

Brother Love :)

1 Corinthians 14:34 is refering to the assemblies of the church.

The women are to follow through as such:

1 Corinthians 14:35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Not in the assemblies, but of their husbands at home.

1 Timothy 2:12.  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In order to not be contradictory with the following verses quoted, as God's word does not contradict itself, this verse seems to infer, again, silence in the public assemblies of the church.


However women can teach and serve in the Lord's business, but not in the assemblies:

 Acts 18:24.  And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
 25.  This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
 26.  And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

 Romans 16:1.  I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
 2.  That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
 3.  Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
 4.  Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Well said Ollie  :)

The first person to bring the message of the Good News that Jesus was risen, was a woman. And that is my final Answer.

If there are lots of women preachers around, it doesn't say much for the men.

The accusation I heard on network radio news this last summer, when the Episcopals announced their ordination of gay ministers was, "You never said anything when we announced the ordination of women ministers, in 1976."

In other words, the proverbial slippery slope, all of this creates.

But if there aren't any men around, then the women definitely have to do something.

If there ARE any men around, it doesn't say much for the men.

    ::)

Yes!

Christian women according to God's word should tell of the good news of Jesus Christ. However they are to be silent in the assemblies of the saints.

Well, now those in the church who are for the ordination of active homosexuals and woman, can use the 1976 incident as a defense for  other controversial decisions which will be m ade by the hierarchy in the future.

No doubt will is a good lesson, for the ungodlie on how to infiltrate and take over an institution.

But this little, post made me think of a........... what if, question.

What if Eve could speak to the sepent today.

She may say, if I would have just known how miserable life can be knowing good and evil, and what it is like being "like God."

Why did you give me the apple to eat.

Hey... this is nothing, the best is yet to come for you, and besides you didn't complain then, quit whinning now..  

He was a lier from the begining, and a murderer..

The homosexual act is an abomination but being a woman is not.

But being a woman preacher might be............

Pet

So might a man preacher  :P

Well, one of the hottest, controversial topics... :)

God uses anyone who is available and obedient to His commands, if a woman is then so be it...who are we to limit the Almight God.??

Bye the Bye the verse in 1Cor 14 needs to be read in context (historical) there is lots too say...so little time

If Women can't be preachers then what of Joyce Meyers, Juanita Bynum, Paula White, Gloria Copeland, Kathering Kuhlman to name a few!!!

Finally being homosexual and being a woman are too totally different things!!!

Corinthians I 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Corinthians I 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
orinthians I 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Corinthians I 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
 
 Timothy 2:12.  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

  I know a woman preacher who violates all these scriptures, yet people say God uses her tremendously.  I don't listen to her or watch her because to me she so flagrantly violates these scriptures that she is an insult to me.  But I guess God uses her.  I suppose all of us violate some scritpure but god uses us all.  God takes us where we are.  Her understanding allows her to violate these scriptures because she interprets them wrongly. So her conscience is clean before God.  It's an imperfect world and an imperfect Church that God uses.

How come God uses her if he doesn't allow her to teach? Plus God isn't supposed to change his mind either:

Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"

So will she be punished for it? Since it is going against what the Bible says, like First Timothy, is she sinning?

Jesus;
    In Ezekiel 47  there is a river that flows out from the throne of God, the further along this river gets the deeper it gets.  This speaks of more revelation, deeper truths that we chrsitians get as we  go deeper in the things of God.
   All of us have some doctrines that are false.  If God refused to use anyone who had any false doctrines , God would not  be using anyone.  God is always calling us out deeper into the things of god. We don't always go.
   I dont know if women with short hair and women preachers are sinning if they believe the bible doesnt condemn it.  BEcause I believe the bible condemns it.  I suppose God has sent them blindness in this area so that they wont be sinning willfully but in ignorance. Or maybeits like in james,"James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. "  They dont know to do good by having long hair and not teaching men so its not sin to them.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." Perhaps there is no law for them against short hair and usurping authority over men and their conscience is clean.
  I will say this though , that there is comming a time when God will come down like the rain, when the church will reach maturity and Christ will have a perfect bride formed. At that time people will have a choice to make , either to enter into the move of God and be perfected, (just before the rapture) or remain outside and attack it.  There are christians who will see many wonderfull marvelous miracles, healings, things nver before seen and will reject it because it doesnt fit in their churchs doctrines. They will miss out and have to go through the tribulation and either be maryterd or take the mark of the beast and loose their salvation.  ONly the perfected bride of christ will make the rapture.

Really? I didn't know that ignorance was an excuse for sin.

It is important to take that verse contextually brother.  James is teaching us that what might be sin for one man, may not be sin for another.  He is not teaching that it is only sin if we know that it is wrong.  As for what he is teaching, let me illustrate:

Say a guy, before he gets saved, went bowling every Saturday night.  He'd be out late, drink, smoke, leer, maybe even leave there to pursue other vices as well.  Then he is graciously and wonderfully saved by God Almighty.  Now...would it be wrong for him to go bowling?  "No!" some might say.  After all, there is no verse that says "Thou shalt not bowl!"  Yet, if this man goes bowling, he will expose himself to many temptations that may be his downfall.  For this man to go bowling would not be right, and for him, would be a sin.  Uniquely, this is the same guy who wouldn't go bowling because of what he equates bowling to.  This is also the guy who will be offended if a brother in Christ without his past goes bowling.

Long illustration to prove a simple point: when God says no, we are guilty if we disobey regardless of our ignorance to the contrary.  When God says no to me, He may not say no to you.  Priority or precept.

All & Jesus;  
    I do not think women with short hair and women who usurp authority over men by preaching and being pastors (pastorettes?) are sinning if they believe it is ok.  I also do not think God is convicting them of it.  Every Christian has some verses in the bible that he or she disobeys.  Are you sinning because you dont kiss your brothers and sisters with God's love as the bible commands in 1 pet 5:14? No, I don't think so.  Even though it is straight forward and repeated some 4 or 5 times in other verses, you have no doubt found away around that verse, just as women preachers with short hair have  found a way around Timothy I 2:12" But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. " and Corinthians I 11:15" But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. "Corinthians I 11:6" For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. "
  You no doubt say something like, " oh if i kiss somebodys wife I'll be tempted to have sex with her so I'm not going to kiss anyone" and you therefore have found a justifiable way around Peter I 5:14"Greet one another with the kiss of love. Peace to all of you that are in Christ. " ( the word translated love here is agape, which means God's love).  Same thing with women preachers with long hair.

Desiring to do ones own will, inspite of what Gods word commands, does not excuse the individual of the offense, Gods own word says transgression of the Lords commands is sin.

And ignorance does not excuse anyone.

The command for women to be silent in the congregation is given by Jesus himself, according to Paul;

1 Cor 14
34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38  But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I guess woman preachers don't consider themseves spiritual or prophets; if this is so, why do men sit and are taught by them, is it because they see themselves as unlearned??

Bot, Claiming ignorance while preaching Gods Word or allowing themselves to be taught, doesn't wash.

Any woman who preaches Gods Word to men, in a church gathering setting, is usurping God Himself.

For sure this woman whoever she may be is ignorant, and whats worse is that any man who sits down to be taught by her, is more ignorant then she is.

When a person (woman or man) willingly rejects an explicit command by Jesus, it simply manifests the persons spiritual condition or better said, the lack of any spirituallity.

There is no excuse, and clearly this is open rebellion against God himself and;

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

How can anyone who breaks the Command preach obedience to Gods commands??

In practicing rebellion and sedition in the name of God, agaisnt Gods command, they seal their own fate.

How can one claim to believe Jesus, and practice contrary to His known WILL.

He has commanded women remain silent in the churches.

Professing themselves to be wise they become as fools.

It is only because we live in the age of grace that we are NOT consumed by God, when we sin.

Blessings,
Petro

Lone,

I tend to believe the passage concerning hair on both parts, male and female, is in order to provide a distinction.  I could be wrong.  But on the issue of women preachers, God clearly denies the practice.  He says no woman is to teach, or have authority over a man.  He also says that when a man desires the office he must meet certain criteria, one of which is being the husband of one wife.  The gender specifics are undeniable in the original Greek.  Man means man.  The problem is when we think God is being chauvenistic.  We aren't viewing God in the proper light.  I mentioned this on another thread I think, but God even gives us a example of this authority structure in His very Person.  The Father is the Head, the Son is subordinate to the Father, and the Holy Spirit is subordinate to Them Both.  The Son is no less God than the Father, and the Holy Spirit is no less God than the Son or the Father.  Rather, there is an order that God has designed in His Own Person, that He expects in His creation.  The man is the head, not because he's better or stronger, but because that's how God designed it.  Paul even points out that as far as God is concerned, there is no difference in the two genders.  Only in the responsibilities that He has given to each.

I encourage you to study more on this and see where God is coming from.  It's very easy to come to the word of God with our preconceived notions of how things ought to be.  Believe me, I've done my fair share!  But the important thing is that we come to the word to learn God's thoughts on how things are, and accept them in faith.  

petro, allinall;  I agree that the scriptures on hair length and women usurping authority over men are clear cut and quite clear.  I believe that it is wrong for women to preach for women to have short hair, and men to have long hair.  what I am saying is that some people do not interpret those scriptures that way, and for them it is not a sin to be a woman preacher.
 Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss.
Corinthians I 16:20 All the brethren send greetings. Greet one another with a holy kiss.
Corinthians II 13:12 Greet one another with a holy kiss.
eter I 5:14 Greet one another with the kiss of love.
  99.9 percent of all christians do not  greet their brethern and sisters with kisses. Actually, the figure may be even higher than that. yet those scritpures are straight forward and clear cut. So by you guys reasoning, all of you are sinning.  You don't greet christians with a kiss, you have found a way around those scriptures.  Likewise, women preachers have found a way around the scriptures against women preachers.  I say that their conscience is clean because their understanding permits them to preach and wear short hair and wear pants and try and look like a man. I say your conscience is clean because your understanding doesnt permit you to kiss anyone in the church.

Unfortunately, Christians do not havce the luxury of deciding what sin is, or is not.

Disobedience is the reason for mans dilema of sin unto death.

It is not a matter of a woman or any man, being a Christian and willingly disobeying the commandment is excused by claiming ignorance, this is nonsense.

Your own interpretation of the verses you put forth are flawed.

It is clear the children of God are to do good, begining with obedience to Gods Word.

Here is the verse again;

James 4
17  Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

You presume, these do not know what is sin.

Consider this verses;

Heb 5
13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Would I presumptious to believe that a preacher of Gods Word
is ignorant of what it teaches??

Is it good to obey God or disobey God?

Clearly these willingly disobey, knowing the truth of the matter, if they didn't in the begining, they have heard, even from the arguments put forth by women herein, shows they know better, but simply choose to ignore God.



How do you connect this to be a commandment of God.

One could start a whole new religion on the priciples you expound, and many do.

Jesus condemned this very thing, which you say, ought to be obeyed;

Mat 15
8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.





Connect the dots for us.  Please..


Nonsense, pure and simple...


Blessings,

Petro

I suppose the next argument is going to be, that woman preachers are babes in Christ............

Please tell me this isn't so..

Petro

women preachers? Of course.

We are colored by our cultural and traditional interpretations. God calls and uses and gifts those as He chooses.

See what I mean?

Never mind what, Jesus's will is in this matter, being politically correct in this generation is of the utmost importance.

After all God forbid, someone might condmen us for having cultural or traditional differences.

We ought to obey God rather than men.


Amen??


Pedtro

             Pedtro;  
       As to being politically correct  :P

                             AMEN!

As much as you would like to see this as a "politically correct" movement, those who embrace the egaltarian position also hold Scripture as high authority and believe that it is championing the realities that have always been part of God's Word and plan.

suzie,

From where comest thou, from walking to and fro on the face of the earth.

Ohhh, geeeh, these you refer to, must be of the same mind with those who seated a practicing homosexual bishop recently.

How comforting, it must be for you, to know these religious humanists, are liberating the sinners from the tyrantical hand of god.

whoooopeeee....suzie..


Petro

Gee, Petro, why couldnt I see that .....that since I believe that Scripture shows God annointing women as pastors as well as men, and in fact that the Bible shows women are equal to men in all aspects of being in Christ, whether "role" wise or spiritual -wise, that I must also desire for homosexuality to be "OK" with God. That would be also the belief and mindset of all the resources and biblical egaltarians.... and not just a sweeping broadbased generalization with no credibility or basis to it......
Your position would have to be right, wouldnt it? You have learned this and have a few Scriptures to hold up as basis wouldnt you?  This couldnt be anything like the "social" or "humanitarian" view that some held about slavery. That those who held tightly to Scripture citing verses that "clearly showed" slavery was the will of God , that men were "blessed" by God to own slaves and well, those slaves were also just darned blessed to be able to have a Christian slaveowner who would "take care" and "provide" for them because well that is the way God deemed it to be.....it was through much bloodshed and lost lives that somehow another look was taken at Scripture and even though it was held to be the truth for so long, they came to realize that their interpretation was, well, wrong.  The Scriptures were all still the same, but how they were viewed was not.

So, that gives me great understanding when someone like you "sets me straight" by giving those profound remarks you make, especially in the means that you do so and knowing that you know so well that you have the "truth" you dont even have to look any further.

Well, I am glad that I can help you.

Now that you know the truth, you won't be able to argue, ignorance of Gods will.

I am sure you will think up another argument, to justify yourself, disregarding the command of JESUS.

Your heros, liberal religious egaltarians, (and there esxists  such an animal), for the most part are nothing more than self serving, magnanimous egotists that seek out people to follow after their pied pipings, in the direction of their god.

Of course they must reinterpret Gods word to realign it with their agenda.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Petro  

The loneranger, was so right when he posted;

"Likewise, women preachers have found a way around the scriptures against women preachers"

Liberals are always looking for loopholes.

In the Word of God, no less??

Amazing...

Petro

Jabez-

I have the gift of leadership and have served in that capacity throughout the years in various churches. I was challenged about women as leaders in one of these settings which began an earnest study on this through the Bible and through research. Unlike Petro would have you believe, while there are extremists in each camp (as you have witnessed) there are many more who have given this subject the insight and Biblical research it deserves with meaningful and Biblical basis. I have read on both "camps" of extremes and the many variations in between that various Christians believe the Scriptures reveal. I would be glad to share that information with you and allow you to discern this for yourself if you like.

I think that is wonderfull.  There is nothing that prevents you from serving in some leadership capacity, at any chuch.

What we have been discussing here is preaching in a church gathering setting (such as 1 Cor 14:23-33), where believers assemble as families, both men, woman and children.

Woman are commanded to keep silence, and not teach men.

 


That is great, if you have leadership abilities, and claim to be christian you should use your abilities for God, teaching women and children.


I am afraid, anyone who disagrees with you being a preacher teaching men, would be an extremists, in your opnion, but then again,   that is your opinion, and it means little, when living for God, what matters is His will be done, not yours.


Nothing which you read or have read  from the camps are Gods word, they are simply opinions, and like your opinions,  mine or anybody else's, they are all wrong when and if they contradict Gods known will.

In this case it is;

Paul, who authoritatively has the final word on behalf of Christ, he wrote in 1 Cor 14:

34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36  What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

And again;

1 Tim 10
11  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

This pretty clear cut...isn't it??



No thanks, I wouldn't be interested, in biting into your apple.

IF, you can prove it using the scriptures only, and not others opinioins, or commentaries, I might be interested, in hearing your understanding of sciptures which lead you to believe, you can preach to men and women in a church setting.



But I won't bite, until I see it, completely.

Blessings,
Petro

Wait what was this about, what is sin for one person isn't a sin for another? That doesn't sound right. So I guess we aren't all created equal huh? I'm confused. ???

How can one not believe that God calls women to preach. No one has a problem when the mother preaches in the home, nor does one argue the fact that most of their spiritual up bringing comes from the guidance of a woman. The Lord called me to preach after I got married. My husband is my covering as Christ is his. I didn't call myself, due to the fact that I was not brought up in a religious household but a spiritual one, to be honest with you I didn't know how people became preachers and never cared to asked. I came into greater understanding that not only will God call a woman, but he called me to preach. That in itself is more shocking than me being a woman. But none the less he called me. Now if anyone has a problem with that take it to the Lord in prayer and ask him to walk all us in His Perfect Truth.

Women can preach anyplace they, like except in a chruch gathering, were men gather for worship service.

I will quote the scripture that commands women to remain silent.

As some have not read it.....

Here it is again;

1 Cor 14
33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

And if any woman consider herself a prophet or spiritual in some way or other, then they might recognize, that what the Apostle goes on to say, is true;

37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Of course if a woman, doesn't consider herself to be spiritual or a prophet, they will simply ignore the commandment, and do what they want, instead of what the Lord wants.

Which will prove they are neither.

Of course commandments are for Gods children and NOT to those who are in bondaghe to sin according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Paul further writes;

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(1 Tim 2:12)

This includes her husband.

How much clearer, can the Word of God make this.

Now, if God speaks to you outside the scirptures, thats wonderfull, but you better make sure it is God speaking to you and not Satan, if it is God, then it will align with His commandments, and not denie it.

Clearly, if any woman preaches to men, God has not spoken to Her, It simply is a lie.

That makes her a false prophet....


Blessings,

Petro

Qualifications for Church Leaders can be found in (Titus1:6-9)
The phrase, "the husband of one wife" would eliminate a woman from being a Preacher.
 I do believe that women do have an important role in the Church. They do serve in many functions that we're all aware of.  :)  I'm also aware of the fact that some Churches see it differently.

God bless,
bluelake

It would also disqualify St Paul.   ::)

Wrong..

Paul was chosen by Jesus, and called to be an Apostle, not an Elder or a Bishop.  (Rom 1:1, 1 Cor 1:1)


Remember, he wrote, the letter to Titus...


Petro

Not to be dogmatic here, but...

Suzie, you state you have done an in depth Bible study concerning the right of women to preach.  Please share with us your scriptural support for this position.

You have to be careful she gets all sorts of things confused.  First she'll tell you that Phoebe was an apostle, and then she'll mention a woman from the OT who was a judge.  She has no ground to stand on and refuses to listen to scripture when it is quite clear.

She like many women of the day have fallen for the feminist garbage that being a mother or "home maker" is a useless job for women without ambition.  It's a sad state and our country falls more and more every generation as there now seems to be two "men" in the house and since the mid 60's rebelion is the status quo.  I'm sure most people know how God feels about rebelion.

Oklahoma Howdy to Saved_4ever,

Welcome back Brother! We missed you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Right On!!!

Brother Love :)

Thanks, though I am trying to stay in the bible study really.  I don't remember when I left but it seems sort of sad I still see some of the same topics still in the forefront from when I left.   :(

YES!!! I think its great. Remember Bro, I still Love you, and I know your a Baptist :)

Brother Love :)

P.S.

Welcome back :)

Oklahoma Howdy to Saved_4ever,

I understand Brother. I remember you saying that you were going to take some private time and study HIS WORD. I find this to be a daily necessity and really enjoy this portion of my day. I find peace, joy, and strength in HIS WORD that is pure and apart from the distractions and evils of this world. I've been praying for you and would appreciate your prayers for me in the study of HIS WORD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

DITTO! (Sorry A4C for shamelessly 'borrowing')

And the saddest part is that the Bible hasn't changed!  ::)

Don't recall if I've stated so, but welcome back Jas!   :)