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The Apostle John recorded the following dialog between Pontius Pilate and Jesus:
John 18
37  Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38  Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

My questions are these...
1. HOW CAN WE KNOW WHAT IS TRUTH AND WHEN THE TRUTH IS EVIDENT IN A GIVEN DEBATE?
2. What can we  rely upon?
3. What can we compare with?
4. What is the confirmation we should look for?

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth." [John 16.13].

There are many Godly men and women on this forum, who are a blessing to us in the truth they share with us. But the ultimate Guide to the truth is the One who lives in us. The Holy Spirit of God.

I know this may seem a simple answer, but that is how God works. "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." [Matt. 11.28-30].

Blessings to you in Christ our Lord.  Roy.

The truth is the answer to the question of whether or not God exists. He either does or he doesn't. It is the answer to the question of whether the proverbial tree fell in the forest, it either did or it didn't. It is the answer to the question of how we were created. It is the answer to any question under the sun. THE TRUTH ABOUT EVERYTHING LIES OUTSIDE OURSELVES! There are answers out there. We call those answers God.

Our perceptions about things come from our own imperfect minds. However, once we receive a connection to those answers, which are then from God,  which is done through the Holy Spirit because it enters us from the outside, we have the possibility of discerning truth. Our perceptions are now being aided by an outside source who knows those answers.

Now an atheist might ask "how do you know if this entity that entered you is from God?" The answer is that it HAS to be from God. If it weren't from God, it would obviously be a deception which is from the opposite entity out there, the devil. But it can't be the from devil because the devil re-enforces the notion that there are no answers out there. Therefore, how could we receive them? It would be a gross contradiction and truth has no contradictions.

This entity (the Holy Spirit) that is sent to us from God has also re-enforced everything Christ said about it. In other words, it hasn't contradicted anything that it promised. It opens up our minds to objective reality rather than to subjective reality. We are no longer coming from purely subjective reality. We are now acknowledging the outside as well as our inside world. That's why the truth searches all things. We realize there are many more things outside of us than just our fallible minds. The truth always re-enforces itself. It never contradicts itself.

Not so simple, ROYO, there is a lot in what you said. "HE will guide you into all truth"

OK then, The Spirit, "HE", will guide me to it, and TEACH ME TRUTH; (I may be on the wrong track, but if the Holy Spirit comes, or I come to Jesus, He will guide me"

"He" is God (do we all agree?)

I looked up that scripture and the second portion of it says this:
"for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come."

 I don't agree with what Heidi said, and I quote; "Now an atheist might ask "how do you know if this entity that entered you is from God?" The answer is that it HAS to be from God. " I have read plenty on this forum so far that may sound smart, but does not sound TRUE!

There HAS TO BE SOMETHING TO COMPARE A PERSON'S STATEMENT TO SO THAT YOU CAN DETERMINE IT IS TRUE, ELSE THERE IS NO TRUTH(?) that is what Pilate was implying to Jesus.

I  do agree, however,with what Heidi has said, quote, "This entity (the Holy Spirit) that is sent to us from God has also re-enforced everything Christ said about it." I agree because that in what the scripture says.


To summarize, based upon the replies so far:
1. The Holy Spirit guides us to the truth if we come to Jesus,("come unto me, all ye...")
2. The Holy Spirit, does not  "speak of himself"
3. The Holy Spirit, comes from God
4. And the MOST OBVIOUS, is we must use the Bible as the base, because opinions are just that OPINIONS. YES?
5.  The truth is  restful to your soul
 

AMEN!!!

Sunodino, i'm confused with why you don't agree with my statment that it HAS to be from God. If something from the outside has entered us, it's either a deception or it's the truth. I said it can't be a deception because the father of lies doesn't admit there are truthful answers out there because he doesn't believe in truth. So the outside entity has to be from the truth. The devil is already in us and is what leads us into deception. Only until we receive the truth from the outside entity can we be led into truth.

The truth is the answer to every question. It lies outside of us. Even if we interpret the bible correctly, there are still other elements of the truth that we missed. It is BIGGER than we are. We can call those answers, God. Even your assertions, Sunodino, that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, which I agree with, is still only part of the truth. It is not all of the truth but it is FROM the truth.  

So the outside entity has to be from the truth. The devil is already in us and is what leads us into deception.
Quotr from Heidi.
____________________________________________________
Heidi, why do you keep refering to the Holy Spirit of God as 'the entity'?  I just never heard God called 'entity' before.

And the devil is NOT 'already in us'  unless a person has been posessed by him. We are born with a sin nature, but that is not the same as 'the devil is already in us', as you stated.

Love in Christ.  Roy.

Royo,
If we are not following God the Father, then we are following the father of lies. Jesus said that those who are not for Him, are against him. Until the Holy Spirit enters us, we are slaves to sin which is being a slave to the devil. Once we receive knowledge from God, we no longer are slaves to the devil.

Can you really not see the logical fallacies in this post?

Fallacy 1:  This is not an exclusive list.

This makes no logical sense at all.

Assuming there is an outside entity at all, and not just your imagination.

Others have addressed this

I don't think this says what you mean it to say.

So, Ebia, you think the Holy Spirit comes from inside ourselves? Where's your evidence?

Ebia, I take it that you believe we are truth? We know all things? If the truth doesn't come from outside ourselves (God), where does it come from? Your mind? Your perceptions?

1.  I didn't say that truth didn't come from outside.  I attacked your logic, not your premise.

As above.

You attacked my logic but didn't explain why it's illogical.

I did for part of it.

As for this bit - I didn't bother because, while it clearly doesn't logically follow, its hard work to put it into words, but I'll give it a shot:
1.  Can you demonstrate the father of lies doesn't believe in the truth?  (As opposed to believing in it but opposing it.)
2.  If 1 is demonstrable, then how can can he be the father of lies - to lie is to tell something other than the truth.
3.  How does "It can't be a deception" inevitably follow from the rest of the sentence?

The father of lies is by his very nature the father of deception or he wouldn't be called the father of lies to begin with. If he is the father of lies then lies are what he gives birth to, not the truth.

If God is the answer to all things and the answer of all things lies outside ourselves, then when when we receive the Holy Spirit from outside of ourselves, it HAS to come from God because it comes from an answer outside of ourselves. Before we receive the holy Spirit, we are already responding to the devil. Jesus says that our hearts are wicked. Wickedness doesn't come from God so what's in our hearts comes from the devil. Thus, the devil already exists inside of us. Therefore, what comes from the outside can only be from God.

sunodino,

Well, here is a piece of truth.

There two  seedlines, note the words of God judging the serpent with a curse, then He truns to the woman;

Gen 3
14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Note verse 15, very closely, here is the first mention of two seedlines.

The seed of of the serpent and the seed of the woman.

Scripture also, tells us, Jesus was born of a virgin, as she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, lets look at;

Luke 1
28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29  And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Not only the Son of God, but the "Only BEGOTTEN Son of God", so, Jesus is the ONLY man of the seedline of the woman.

While every other man or woman is of the seedline of the serpent Satan.

And because of what Jesus had accomplished at the cross, God is willing to adopt sons of the serpent, who repent, confess, and believe in the finished works of Jesus.

And these are the ones, whom Jesus is speaking of at;

Jhn 10
35  .........................,  I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26  But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30  I and my Father are one.

These are the ones who receive the Holy Spirit/Comforter, who leads into all truth, because He lives within these.

Jhn 14
16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

So as you can see, everyone that belongs to Christ, is given the Holy Spirit, that dwells within them, anyone who does not have the Spirit of God, does not belong to Christ and is not of God.

And here is that great truth;

Rom 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Blessings ,

Petro

That sounds a bit circular, but either way, you haven't addressed the point: How can he originate [only] lies, if he doesn't acknowledge a truth to lie about?  Surely some of what he originates would be true, and some would be false.

That follows if the ONLY thing outside of ourselves is God.
My dog is black.  John has a dog.  Therefore John's dog is black.

This bit's not too bad so far.

Doesn't follow - the wickedness inside us can be from the devil without the devil being inside us.

Also presumes that proving the devil is inside us (which you haven't done) excludes the possiblitity that the devil is outside of us as well, and that there is no other possible source outside.

But why then is it easier for us to follow the devil than to follow God? Without knowledge to the contrary, we follow what the devil values.  We already have knowledge of the devil because he advocates sin. Unless something that contradicts what the devil stands for enters us, we will still follow the devil and remain in our sinful nature. In fact, we are so comfortable with what the devil advocates that we wouldn't know it if he entered us. But when something that is the opposite of the devil enters us, we can then know the difference.

Is this supposed to be assertion or reasoning?

Rely on your powers of deduction, Ebia. After all, human logic is perfect.

Sorry Heidi, I don't usually overtly disagree with you, but you have said some very strange things, "God is outside of us and the devil is inside of us?"  And now, human logic is PERFECT? I don't think so.  We have been born with a choice, to serve the Lord or to serve the devil, but it is the individual "flesh" i.e; soul, spirit, body  -  are independant of both.  We can be influenced, and frankly, many times I have wrongly so, somtimes my logic has superseded the urging of the Lord.  My logic is imperfect - so is yours.  Start proving your point with the Bible, instead of philosophy to make it credible.

Hence, this thread, "What is truth"? was meant to imply that the only truth comes from Jesus and His word. To prove a point one MUST use the scripture to prove it and in two or more witnesses according to Jesus; the work of calvary was for that very purpose!  All else is supposition and opinion. Books galore take two sides and multiple views of an issue, who is telling the truth?  Is there truth?  YOU BET THERE IS.  Ultimately, it MUST BE  the Holy Spirit that guides us through the word of God or one can be sorely deceived.

2 Tim 3:13,14,16,17
13  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

No, no, Sunodino, Ebia said human logic was perfect. I was being sarcastic. Of course human logic is imperfect which has been my point.

But i do not believe we have a CHOICE. How can we choose something we don't understand? It says all through the gospel of John that God hardens people's hearts. He blinds whose eyes He wants to blind and opens the ones He wants to open. It is the holy Spirit that makes one one believe. Trying to believe that Jesus is the truth without the Holy Spirit is like trying to understand another language without an interpreter. I desperately wanted to believe the things in the bible before the Holy Spirit entered me. But I couldn't. It didn't make any sense to me. It sounded bizarre. But whe I received the Holy Spirit from the outside, not from inside me, THEN EVERYTHING made sense to me. The Holy Spirit is from God which is outside me. All of us can only understand what we understand and our "decisions" come from what rules us at the time.

Before we receive the Holy Spirit, we value sin because sin is all we know. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin because it has given us the knowledge that sin is wrong. The Holy Spirit is what makes us KNOW Christ because it is the person of Christ living iside us.  That's why the atheists have such a hard time believing sin is wrong. Without the Holy Spirit in us, we justify sin. Before we receive Holy Spirit, what are we ruled by? And where does that come from?

WHAT IS TRUTH?


Jesus Christ!








John 1:17.  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


John 14:1.  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
 2.  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
 3.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 4.  And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
 5.  Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
 6.  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 7.  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him

The notion that we have choice is simply not scriptural. Jesus said that no one can come to the Father unless the Father draws him. So if I want to come to God and God isn't drawing me, do I have a choice? Am I bigger than God or is Jesus just plain wrong? Jesus also said that we didn't choose Him. He chose us. Paul didn't just wake up one day and "decide" to be a Christian. He was ZAPPED by the Holy Spirit which is what made him believe. Peter wanted not to deny Christ but he was too afraid for his own life. But then when he received the Holy Spirit at pentecost, he all of a sudden "decided" to give up his life then. What a coincidence? Come on, sunodino, let's give God more credit than we humans.

Whoa, I think you are really mis-interpreting what scriptures you are referring to. Yes, the Father draws us, and yes Paul had a special visitation from Jesus, because of his Apostolic call, but Jesus calls ALL THE WORLD, and WE CHOOSE TO SERVE HIM OR REJECT HIM.  We are not ZAPPED  without our own consent, that is the difference between us and animals, nature and dead things!

John 3
16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This is clearly implying that Christ came to save the Lost.

John 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

To "come" to Jesus is a choice to be where he IS.

John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The word throughout the New Testatment translated "believe" is the Greek word:  
pisteuo, pist-yoo'-o;  to have faith, believe, commit (to trust), put in trust with.

This  believing, trusting, committing, is something only one can do WILLINGLY. "whosever will"

I think it is you who are misintpreting scripture, Sunodin. Read the whole gospel of John. I was just at a bible study about it. It is extremely clear that God does the choosing, not us. God either hardens our heart or opens up our eyes. That is why rejection of the holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. When someone takes our blinders off and we can see the world, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE not to see. You are giving credit for your belief to you own superior intelligence. That is arrogance and not a fruit of the spirit. Jesus Himself said, "I can do nothing without the Father." He gives complete credit to God for everything He can do. When addressed by the rich man as "Good Sir", He said "Why do you call me good?No one is good but God alone."

I don't think you see what it is in you that allows you to believe. You think it comes from yourself. There are huge powers operating in the universe that are much bigger than the human being. To say that we are too omnipotent not be affected by God and the devil is extreme arrogance. Read the 7 woes in the Gospel of Matthew. In it, Jesus explains why God has hardened the hearts of the Jews.  If He has blinded someone's eyes, that person is not more powerful than God to "decide" to believe. If God chose us, He makes sure His will is going to get done.

So? I wasn't at your Bible study.  

God opened my eyes and offered his salvation, I accepted, and committed my life, making Jesus Lord of my spirit, soul and body.  That is not arrogant, it is the process of salvation.


Rejection is something I can choose to do, BUT I DON'T.  That also is not arrogant.



The "call me good" story, does not relate to me, as Paul said; "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:"   I didn't save myself, the work of the cross finished the work that allows me to be saved.  That is from God, not from me, I received it and accepted.  

2 Peter 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Whoa, you really say some weird things. I am not more powerful than God, but I was created with a free will. Anyone who ends up in the lake of fire goes there willingly.  Sounds like you are heavy into "predestination".  I think I have always commented on the side of the scriptures, holding up the glory of God and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. However, you are accusing me of something I never said. I detect some confusion.  

You have not read the book of Romans?
Rom 11
12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
15  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

They will once again open their eyes, but they will have to accept Jesus as Messiah, just as the Gentiles.  

Now I don't want to get into a 30 page dialog with you that does not profit either of us.  So, let's just agree to disagree. Thanks

Well, Sunodino, if you want to take credit for your salvation, be my guest. I don't think you realize how big the holy Spirit is. You see yourself as capable of rejecting or accepting salvation. If Jesus had chosen not to die on the cross, then God would have been wrong about Him which is of course, impossible. Jesus fully knew that the only reason He could "choose" to die on the cross was because He was given the power to do so by God. Jesus gives no credit to Himself. Jesus was the most humble man who ever lived. He didn't glorify Himself one bit. Because of this, He was, of course, exhalted.

In the same way, when God chose us, do you think He was wrong? Jesus explains why He doesn't reveal certain things to certain people. He said that God doesn't reveal Himself to those who would not understand Him. When God chooses us, He makes sure we will know Him. He also PRUNES us so that we can come closer to Him. You must also believe that it is our superior powers that makes us grow instead of the Holy Spirit inside of us.

SInce you take credit for your own salvation, you must also blame others if they aren't saved, because after all, it's THEIR fault if they reject Him. This causes judging, which is not a fruit of the spirit, instead of understanding that none of us can help ourselves. That is why we need God.

I fought God tooth and nail but He had chosen me anyway! In one split second, I "all of a sudden believed". Never mind that I had just received the Holy Spirit. That was a minor detail.    Why does Jesus say "Forgive them, Father for they know not what they do?" Have you even thought through these things, or do you just blindly quote scripture without discernment?

Of course i believe in predestination. Why do you think Revelations was written? Do you think it's not going to happen? Or if it does happen, it's just a lucky guess? You must believe that you are master of your own fate. That fits in with your notion that humans have enough power to save themselves. After all, it isn't Jesus who saves, it's our own power to accept or reject Him. Boy, we are certainly powerful to be able to go against the Holy Spirit.  That's of course, grandiosity, not humility. Why do you think the rejection of the holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin? Or haven't you thought that out either?

We alone can do nothing to gain salvation. As Jesus said, "I can do nothing without the Father." If you think these are weird ideas, then you must not believe Jesus's words. I trust people whose ideas are more in line with the fruits of the Spirit. The closer they are to humility, the more i believe their words. True and complete humility is acknowledging that God is responsible for whatever good is in me, including my salvation, not me.  I will explain what I think the bible means by free will later. I have to get to bible study.

In Christ,
Heidi

I don't take credit. Jesus is my savior because of Calvary. No other reason


What? You say;
"Never mind that I had just received the Holy Spirit. That was a minor detail. "
Yikes, You are really confused, "O God DON'T SAVE ME, I INSIST!"  that is rediculous.



Here is a list of accusations you made about me, without shame, you don't even know anything about me or my salvation experience, what I have been delivered from or what the Lord speaks to me about.

quotes from Heidi making accusations about me:
1.  SInce you take credit for your own salvation,
2.  you must also blame others if they aren't saved
3.  not a fruit of the spirit,
4.  instead of understanding
5.  or do you just blindly quote scripture
6.  then you must not believe Jesus's words
7.  Or haven't you thought that out either?

Talk about lack of humility. You come off very self promoting. I don't think you really want to seem that way on this forum, like you are somekind of an elitist chosen above everyone, and everyone else is decieved!  I think you need to apologize.


PLEASE DON'T.  You have gone way off the original subject as you usually do on all the threads.  This is my last reply to you about this. Not into arguments.  I respectfully decline.  

Petro,
I hope you are still looking in on this one.  Your bit of truth is very interesting!

Are you suggesting that there are people that are born of the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman?

Please elaborate.

Thanks,
sunodino

Sunodino, the notion that it is up to us to reject or accept Christ is, in my opinion, simply giving more power to the individual than he has. It does bother me when we humans elevate ourselves above God. I am just as capable of doing it as anyone. But I can't endorse a belief that perpetuates that kind of thinking. If you want to use the word "accuse" which I don't like because it's assuming a defensive position, but if you want to use it, you "accused" me of misinterpreting the bible and having weird ideas. I "accused" you of an arrogant belief which causes judging.  All you had to say was that you disagreed with my beliefs and wanted to question them. But labeling them and judging them is going to elicit a similar response back. If you disagree with my beliefs, then I ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt by asking me to explain them instead of making pre-judgments about them. The same goes for your assumption that I believe human logic is perfect. I do not think human logic is perfect. I was using Ebia's statement that human logic is perfect to show how ridiculous it is. If you had read the previous posts then you would have seen that I think human logic is imperfect.

You also misunderstood what i was saying about the Holy Spirit. I blieve that the Holy Spirit IS what gives us the power to see who Christ is, not our own superior intelligence. It sounds to me, however, that you believe that the choice to be saved is in OUR hands instead of God's hands. That is what I disagree with. If we have the CHOICE to reject our salvation, then why is it ridiculous to say "Oh God, don't save me"? I think it's ridiculous because it's almost impossible, but you're saying that we do choose it.

As far as being an elitist is concerned, we ALL think our beliefs are right on this forum or we wouldn't have them. How am I any different?

I don't think arrogance is a fruit of the spirit, do you? I'm sure you don't think you have a drop of arrogance in your blood. I know I do. If I'm wrong about your arrogance, I apologize. If I'm right, then it doesn't hurt to look at it. I will do the same.

Scripture


Scripture


Scripture


and more Scripture


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
KJV

 
 
 

Truth

Text:  Used in various senses in Scripture. In Prov. 12:17, 19, it denotes that which is opposed to falsehood. In Isa. 59:14, 15, Jer. 7:28, it means fidelity or truthfulness. The doctrine of Christ is called "the truth of the gospel" (Gal. 2:5), "the truth" (2 Tim. 3:7; 4:4). Our Lord says of himself, "I am the way, and the truth" (John 14:6).

Amen.

I was trying to argue truth in a universal sense rather than from a purely Christian sense. I agree that scripture is the truth, but a non-Christian sees that as blind faith instead of actually coinciding with the way the universe was set up. The truth as no contradictions. God's logic is perfect and His laws make sense. There are also a lot of other things in the universe that are true that aren't addressed in scripture. That is why the truth encompasses everything. The truth is all of objective reality.

I think essential truth is a person.

We think of it as a concept, or a thing.

It's a good question:  How do we "instinctively" know "truth"?


But I think truth is essentially just a person--Jesus Christ...


    ;D

I think Christ is certainly one aspect of the the truth. But He even says that He does not know everything. He said He does not know the hour that the world will come to an end. He also acknowledges one who is greater than Him. Again, the truth is ALL of objective reality. And since God knows all of objective reality, God is truth.

pilate did not 'recognise' the truth because it was only by what rome dictated was the truth.
and his eye was not single.
But had one on pleasing the crowd and the other on rome.

I once had two salt pots. and kept them in the same cupboard always.
One day on was broken and thrown away.
Some time later I went to get some salt and kjnowing that the salt was in THAT cupboard opened it in full expectation of seeing it.
But did not and no matter how much I looked could not see it though I knew it was there.
Then I suddenly realised that in my imagination and mind I had in veiw and thinking the one that wa sbroken.
ON that realisation I 'rembered' the other one and replaced it in my imagination and thinking.
As soon as I had done that "imediately" I saw the salt pot.
it was not 2inches in front of me and right in front of all the other things.
I was  BLINDED by the false thing I had in my imagination and thinking.
So it is with the truth.
There are "strongholds' of the devil in the imaginations and thoughts.
which BLIND us to the truth.
and so we need to be "renewed in the SPIRIT of our minds"
and lay hold of God for others in paryers and interc ession so that we may pull them down. and that the Word of God may take thier place.and give light.
Paul was praying to CHRISTIANS also when he said "that the eyes of the understanding may beopned that we may comprehened with all the saints..........."
So even thjought we may be BORNagain we need our understanding as to the POWER that ios towards us who beleieve and is made avalable to us.

That SPIRIT of TRUTH that "witenesed with our spirits thatw er are the children of God"
Will also0 witness to the TRUTH or laCK when we hear it.
That is what is meant we have no need of any to teach us.
That is RIGHT FROM WRONG.
TRUTH FROM ERROR.
But let su not forget thst Hr has given us TEACHERS to the church which among others is that it might be PERFECTED.

SO we are not to BLINDLY flolow AS THOSE WHO FOLOW THE blind.
BUT even as God has given to the church those ministers so written who are LED so to MINISTER.
THEN WE WHO hear LISTEN with the UNDERSTANDING and are LED;are by theSAME SPIRIT into the TRUTH that they expound on.
and all ;if led are built up in the most holy faith.

Truth can only be discerned through paradox. That's why Jesus spoke in parables. Any statement that one makes outright can be distorted or misunderstood. But as soon as one is open to the truth, it lies before his very eyes.

Not sure this is correct.
For a thing is only distorted and misunderstood when there is a LACK of comminication between the two parties.
But if BOTH parties wishes and seeks to UNDERSTANDa the other it can be done.

There is another way perhaps.
and that is by EXPERIENCE.

a professor sitting on a beach who has all the knowledge of the sea perhaps has in NEVER HAVING gone into the water 'knows' less than a young child.
Or having seen pictures and read all the reports and experinces of eating  an orange yet having never done so 'knows'  less than one who has.

No man who has "come to a knowledge of the truth" can be disuaded of it.
He can perhaps be UNFAITHFULL to that which he knows to be the truth.
But he can never be told or persuaded of to the contrary.

I can understand what someone else is saying but not necessarily agree with him. He doesn't have to be speaking the truth for me to understand him. The truth lies simply in what is true, apart from our perceptions of it. The truth encompasses all of objective reality. Once we accept that, we are then open to what's true. For example, someone can tell me there was an accident down the street 3 hours ago. I can accept the fact that he's either telling me the truth or not. Once I acknowledge that he may or may not be telling me the truth, I'm more open to finding out if it was the truth. The truth lies outside of us and we can only receive it once we are willing to seek it.

(the word of God) found in the bible.
The word shall endure for ever.
And prove the test of time.
Truth can not ever be supressed or concealed for long.Because God has a purpose for it."my word shall not return unto me void"  

Jesus Christ is the truth, the way, the life.

Acts 17:11.  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Corinthians 3:3.  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
 4.  And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
 5.  Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Psalms 89:6.  For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?


 1 Corinthians 1:3.  Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
 4.  I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
 5.  That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
 6.  Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
 7.  So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
 8.  Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 9.  God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Since, you are using the scriptures to launch these questions, based on the statement Jesus makes of Himself;

"that I should bear witness unto the truth.
Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

The truth of this statement will be confirmed by the written record, wherein God confirms this statement by His own  words; that is to say that the truth will be revealed within the context of scripture which is the record of what God has said, whether He himself or by the mouth of His prophets, since it is impossible for our Holy God to lie;

Heb  6

18  That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19  Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

This is our consolation, on which every Christian hangs his hope.

And here it is:  God spoke to Moses and told him, to tell the people the following, Moses the prophet testifies to this, truth;

Deut 18
15  The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16  According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17  And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And again;

Mat 17
17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4  Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5  While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

I  have emboldened the words which bring out the  words which make the point.


Evreryone that ever lived and has heard the words, which Jesus spoke will be judged by the same words, He spoke in Gods name;

  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
  And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.  (Jhn 12:48-50)




Jesus, himself claimed to be that prophet, consider, his own words;

Jhn 8
12   I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
14  Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go.
15  Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16   And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17  It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18  I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.  
19   Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.  
23  Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.  
24  I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.  
25  And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.  
26  I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.  
28  Then said Jesus unto them,  When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.  
29   And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.  
30  As he spake these words, many believed on him.  
31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.  

To the samaritan woman at the well in John 4; He said............

21  Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25  The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 [color] Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.  

Jesus claimed to be the Messiah..also.

2. What can we rely upon?   The righteousness of Gods Word.
"revealed from faith to faithThe just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17

  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
  Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)


3. What can we compare with?  

Gods Word.

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isa 28:9-10)



4. What is the confirmation we should look for?  

Gods Holy Spirit confirms to every  spirit of every person he SAVES, that he is a child of God.  

Petro

Sorry to backtrack...but Who gives men this power?  That is, to say that we are given the choice to reject or accept - may I simply say obey - does this in turn mean that we take power from God?  Who is to say that God, in His power does not allow us this decision?  Is He any less God?  Does our decision to obey negate our need for His Divine intervention on our part in the matter?

No.
The power of God is in His word as in the beginning all the created was done by His word. It is this power of His word that calls one to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the decision is made by the individual to obey. The individual deciding to obey God does not take any power away from God or negate the power of His word. After all it is He that set the plan in place. It is His to say, we just obey.

I agree!  The "freewill" is only so free as God allows it, and only enacted when God allows it.

If this is true, then the will is not free and cannot be used at will.

However, with the help of the Spirit, man can serve God with the mind, while living in his sinful flesh, this why Paul says;

Rom 8
1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Blessings,

Petro