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Has anyone other than myself ever suffered the spiritual decline brought on by pornography? If so lets unite here to discuss and overcome this major obstacle in a brotherly way. I realize most posters have a reputation to uphold here as with any discussion forum, but at the end of the day I wish to maintain the reputation as an honest man. I will tell you I am a Minister who has obtained deliverance from all addictions and still struggle with pornography for unlike other substances God has delivered me from (drugs etc) pornography consists of a God given desire to be attracted to the opposite sex.This is a major problem in America where 1/3 of all Pastors suffer from pornography addiction in one form or another.So who will be honest and engage this discussion in a realistic manner. Hopefully some will to edify the Body of Christ and exhort the Brethren.

God Bless, Paul

Hello Brother Paul,

WELCOME!


I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite.

Brother Paul, I'm not a minister and I don't have a problem with pornography. I don't know how graphic you want to get with this subject, but we do have children here as young as 8. So, we don't get graphic at all with sexually oriented matters.

I would view this like many other tools of the devil to destroy (i.e. alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc.). Frankly, I would doubt that 1/3 of all pastors are addicted or associated with pornography, so I would be interested in your source of information. I'm not hinting that pastors are more than human and perfect by any means, but I've never heard huge statistics like this, nor would I know how any organization could collect statistics like this.

So, I will make this a matter of prayer.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 124:8 NASB  Our help is in the name of the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.

Blackeyedpeas

    I understand your position and appreciate it, but I did not post here to stir up strife but to simply discuss an issue that is huge in the Body of Christ. I have studied this matter in grave detail and have found surveys that indicate that 1/3 of Pastors do indulge in some form of pornography. Here is a link that exposes this massive problem in some figures. I think we would both agree that 1 Pastor is to many. As for children on this forum I would hope that parents would monitor on line useage in children especially sites  titled " For men only" I know I would. But my intent was not to get graphic but meerly to discuss this issue.

God Bless, Paul

(Commercial Web Link Removed)

Brother or Sister Paul,

The commercial web link was removed. Advertising and soliciting is not permitted on the forum.

The article mentioned 20%, not 33% - AND, there was no method given for their opinion. As far as I know, this would simply be a guess out of thin air. There probably is some sort of problem associating some pastors with pornography, but I doubt very seriously there has been any scientific method used to obtain anything more than a guess.

One would be too many as you said, so this will be a matter of prayer. There is also a well-known scandal that isn't a guess at all regarding the molestation of children by practicing priests. Many have been prosecuted in courts of law, and many more cases are beyond the statute of limitations. This was almost institutional in nature and does not involve any guessing. So, the need for prayer in this area is overwhelming. This does not hint that all Christians should be painted with the same, broad brush.

Love in Christ,
Tom

John 10:8-10 NASB  "All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

BEP

    I have encountered persons of your mind set  before and I assure you that I do not wish to argue numbers with you. Whats the difference between 20% and 33.3%? As I said one is to many. I wish to discuss not debate. If anyone wishes to discuss this issue please respond. I dint mean any disrespect or illfeelings, I simply wish to discuss this matter in a Christian manner.
God Bless,Paul

Brother or Sister Paul,

Just what is my mindset?

First, there's a big difference between the stated 20% which is a guess and the 33% that you posted. Neither would be accurate - at the best a guess - and probably would be grossly higher than the truth.

I don't know what there would be to discuss. Even for one, this would be evil and something to confront. A person who has yielded to this type of evil has no business standing in the pulpit. There's really nothing complex about this situation. Again, this does not hint that pastors are or can be perfect and without sin. BUT, it would suggest that anyone serving as a pastor should be able to resist something this major. If not, they don't belong in the ministry. Rehab and counseling was tried for many of the priests involved in the biggest sex scandal in history, and it didn't work. What does work is removing them from that position and prosecuting them to the fullest for any violation of the law. Do you wish to offer a different solution?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB  I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Amen Brother Tom I agree completely. There are 2,313,662 Ministers just for the Prsebyterian denomination. (I couldn't find figures for any others at the moment so I am just using that as a comparison figure.) That does not include all the Christian denominations. At 20% that is 462,732. At 33% that is 763,508. That is a significant difference indeed. Such blown up figures does nothing but make an attempt at making Christian ministers look bad.

Brother Roger,

In reflection, it might sound like I was trying to paint all or a great percentage of priests with the same brush, and that would be wrong also, so I apologize.

I would also like to mention some absolute facts that I want to state now:

1 - All Christians were in desperate need of JESUS CHRIST to rescue us from the curse of sin and death. We were all forgiven of horrible sins that were worthy of nothing but death and punishment. If not for the Blood of our precious JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS, we would be lost - undone - condemned - and damned to an eternity of punishment in hell.

2 - NO Christian can say that they are perfect or holy, and all Christians sin. We still have a desperate need to pray and beg our Lord and Saviour to forgive us. We all need to pray every day that GOD helps us to avoid the things of this world and gives us strength to stand AGAINST the things of the devil. We all need help and strength from GOD every day. This is the will of GOD for our lives, so HE will answer our prayers for help and strength if we mean it.

Brother Paul,

Sin is sin, and I should not have made any distinction of any one sin being more major than another. All Christians have a need for confession and forgiveness every day if we wish to walk in the SPIRIT and have sweet fellowship with our LORD and SAVIOUR.

This is a perfect example of the power of prayer and why all Christians need to be in prayer many times every day. We also need to be in prayer for each other, our pastors, our leaders, and the entire BODY OF CHRIST. GOD gave us prayer and fellowship for many of our ills. GOD gave us the HOLY SPIRIT who lives in our hearts for comfort and guidance. Our real power and strength is in CHRIST - not ourselves. Not one of us has any righteousness, except as filthy rags. All Righteousness that any Christian has is ONLY in CHRIST.

Brother Paul, we can do all things in CHRIST!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 11:6 NASB  And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

BEP

So to clarify your position is that a man or women who submits to temptation shouldn't minister. I feel that is way out of line and so does the Word of God. I don't know what your credentials are other than forum mediator that would qualify you for such a statement. How would Peter have preached on the day of Pentecost if he had felt that way. He would have never steeped into the Pulpit and preached again after he lied and denied Christ or David would have never gone on to greatness after Bathsheba.You ever heard that anyone who preaches the Gospel should live the Gospel and that very same Gospel proclaims that if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness and that all have sinned and came short of the Glory of God and that our Righteousness is as filthy rags to God. So mistakes don't by any means disqualify us, and might I also add that one must be careful on here for if you direct people wrong in your posts you will give an account of it one day. I named this post the silent killer for a reason because no one wants to talk about it, so lets keep it quiet and sweep it under the rug and it will go away. When millions are addicted to pornography and need the Body of Christ to rise up and overcome this huge giant. And the Bible also teaches to confess your faults one to another and for the strong to go and restore a weaker one. I was hoping for some testimonies from overcomers and steps to freedom and some encouragement from the Breather, instead I get resistance. Thats anything but " Love in Christ" my friend. With that I rebuke you brother and advise that you study up on human relations and the Word and come out of your I'm always right attitude. I encountered this on secular forums but never thought I would find it in a "Christ-ian" (to be Christ like) forum. Ask your self would Christ have took your attitude, if not you may wish to take his. Wishing you well and praying fervently for you. I do not wish to partake in such a forum so I will bid you fare well. And if you will use any search engine and type in "Pastors addicted to pornography" you will find that 33 percent is very accurate. ;)

Yes Peter did sin against Jesus. He also repented and did not deny Him after that. Those that are still struggling and participating in a sin such as pornography are the ones that need to step down from behind the pulpit. There are many such that are actively participating in sins that are still there trying to preach. It is not good for Christ and is not good for any of us.

Brother Paul,

It appears that you are trying to justify the viewing of pornography by a pastor before and after standing in the pulpit - over and over again. You can't do that with the Bible, and you should know that you can't if you know anything about the Bible. I would be your elder by twice or three times over, but I shouldn't have to tell a pastor which portions of the Bible apply to this problem. I easily could, but why don't you ask the deacons and elders of the church you pastor?

I reject your rebuke and would say the same things that have already been said in this thread. If you can't or won't stop the pornography while you are trying to stand in the pulpit and lead a congregation, you need to find another line of work. This is a simple Biblical truth, and it's not a hateful or self-righteous statement. If you need help in finding the numerous portions of Scripture that apply, I would repeat you should ask the deacons and elders of the church you pastor? Trying to assign percentages to pastors who mix the pulpit with pornography won't work and has nothing to do with the Holy Bible.

I will pray that GOD helps you stop the pornography addiction, but I won't lie to you in an attempt to make you feel better about what you're doing. I see that you have made yourself a guest, but I know that you will be back to read this. Quit trying to justify your continued behavior because it can't be done. Becoming angry with someone who tells you the truth isn't very wise either. If you actually think that you can be a pastor and a pornography addict at the same time, tell this to your congregation. In the meantime, we will be praying for you.

Love in Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 5
1 Timothy 3

Amen brother. There are many people that are taking on the idea that they can remain steeped in their sins once they become a Christian. So called Christians that are homosexuals, porn addicts, and support such other sins are the results. To repent of your sins does not just mean to ask for forgiveness but it also means to leave such things behind you, with the aid of our Lord and Saviour.

I stumbled upon this message board while trying desperately to find information about sexual addiction and pornography addiction for my beloved husband. I came across the title for this thread and thought " Finally!". Upon reading I saw no hint of "brotherly" love or support. This man came reaching out to other brothers and instead is treated like such an outcast and told he doesn't belong in the ministry. Maybe it is time you "Godly men" came down off your pedestool's and embraced this brother. Not one of us is perfect!

This attitude is why brothers who are suffering do so in silence. These couples are suffering silently because of fear of being treated like this. If these people cannot turn to their brothers and sisters in Christ, who can they turn to?? This addiction is like any other (alcohol, food, smoking, etc). It needs understanding and love. Do you think these men like living how they live?? No, they don't. It's a very humiliating thing for them. It's also very hard on their families. These people try to change and overcome their addictions. In order to do it succesfully, they need support. You don't just say I'll pray.

My husband was a lay speaker who preached and was going to begin seminary. He had been trying to overcome his addiction for 4 1/2 years. When everything finally hit the fan this past april, he realized that he would lose everything if he didn't get the help he needs. When I first learned of his addiction in dec 01, I tried to get him help but never dreamed the chaplain (an officer above him) would try to get him in trouble. We tried dealing with it together and it worked until we weren't trying so hard and he got back into it. It's a constant thing in our marriage now. We have since withdrawn from the church because there is no support and once people learn, it's like you have the plague. It hurts me immensely. Do you think my husband enjoys the hurt that I have had to deal with?? Do you think he likes the way people see him? Do I like how people treat him? No, no, and no.

As a wife, I'm going to ask that people stop treating these people like they are deviants who aren't worthy of anything. People in ministry are just that, people. They are no better than Joe Schmoe down the street.

Hi wifetoj77,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

While I agree with some of your statements I disagree with most. A pastor does need to be above reproach, blameless. If he cannot stand as such then I stand on the statement that he does not need to be behind the pulpit. This is Biblical. As for the help he needs it needs to come from someone that can work one on one with him and not over the internet. The most we could do for him here is to pray for him.

I also disagree with your statement that he did not receive any support from us. Yes we are all imperfect but this line of thought that it is ok to continue in the ministry while battling this problem is what has brought paedophilia's and homosexuals to be behind the pulpit. A pastor is to be the role model for the congregation. He cannot do that in truth when he is himself battling such a problem.

I certainly would not want an alchoholic preaching from behind the pulpit while drunk or someone to stand there preaching about the hazards of smoking while lighting up a cigarette. As you said yourself it is an addiction that is just the same as these.

Yes it does need understanding and love. Sometimes that love comes in ways that the person does not like and refuses to accept. This is the truth of the matter.

I am sorry to hear that your church is not supportive in this matter. I suggest that you find one that is. There are many coming out now that have a program called "Reformers Anonymous". It is a wonderful program for people of all sorts of sin in their lives. The program is handled with love and a whole lot of support.

1Ti 3:1  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6  Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8  Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9  Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10  And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11  Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12  Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Tom,
 
Although I might have worded things a little different I agree with most everything that you have written thus far.  From reading the posts it looked like Roger wanted others to not judge him, but was unwilling to show them the same grace.

It is not my aim in responding to this post to disparage him, so I will stop at this point.  I pray that God touches his heart and gives him the humbleness to receive Godly counsel.  That being stated, I am not sure how effective my prayers at this point in my life. 

The real reason that I am writing is because I would ask for prayer concerning my own life.  Pornography/sexual lust, pride and anger are three things that Satan, the world and my flesh have used to lure me from God.  I know that all three of these sins are related, but am really not sure which comes first, or is the predominant one in my life.  I would like to get rid of them.  I can't find a way out of this cycle that I am in.

Another thing that bothers me (besides that fact that I have a bad testimony) about this is that if my problem with pornography would come out it would hurt the ministry of a close family member.  Even though I am not in a leadership position I attend the same church as this person.  Also my computer is hooked up through their webservice, so even if I overcome my problem with pornography today if at some point in the future some viewed their internet history it would give them a misrepresentation of who was viewing the offensive material.

I am looking for Biblical advice and godly wisdom in two areas:  First, what can I do to get rid of this sin.  I know the Bible.  Regardless, I am either missapplying scripture, or missing something.  Second, what do I do about the possibility that a church leader could be blamed for my past sins.  I have considered quietly talking with some of the church leaders about my situation. 

Again I would ask that those who read this post would pray for my deliverance and the boldness to share my testimony and warn others once I am delivered.

Hello Premed1,

WELCOME!


First, I assume that you are talking about Brother Paul, not Pastor Roger who was one trying to help him. Second, someone stating the truth about this subject is doing you a favor and treating you right. It was Brother Paul who didn't want to hear the truth. We also had the wife of another person having the same kind of problem who didn't want to hear the truth. In this case, someone lying to you would be your enemy, not your friend.

You already know the answer to some of the things that you have stated. You obviously know that involving innocent third parties and placing them in a position where they might have to take blame for your actions is despicable. To make this despicable act worse, you are involving a ministry. Your first and most obvious step is to immediately get some sort of good, freeware, eraser type program and remove innocent parties and a church from your problem. You should have already done this, and I wouldn't have any idea why you haven't. There is no excuse for you not handling this part of the problem immediately.

Reference your addiction, you first have to want to stop it. For a Christian, this would mean asking GOD for forgiveness and praying that GOD will help you stop. In terms of magic or mystery, there isn't either one of these in this situation. The answer is already in this paragraph. Other Christians reading this will be praying for you, including me. If you need more help, you seek Christian counseling. Regardless of what you do, get the innocent third party and the church out of this problem immediately.

Thank you for your advice.  I appreciate you prayer and the prayers of other believes.

By the way, you where correct in assuming that I was writing about the guy who was seeking help, not the one ministering to him.  I apologize to pastor Roger, I was referring to Brother Paul's attitude in my post not the Pastor's.

Hello Premed1,

I'm really thinking that a more personal and private setting would be better to deal with this. You really don't know much about the people you might deal with over the Internet.  As an example, I'm a grandpa and know that I would be categorized as an old square by many younger people. I've been a Christian nearly all of my life and I'm a retired police officer, so I know that my views are heavily colored by my life experience. I told you what I think is completely correct for a Christian and from a Biblical point of view.

A more personal and private setting would allow more honest interaction without the worry of 8 year old children listening to or reading everything that was said. I honestly believe that seeing a Christian counselor would be the best way to proceed if you are unable to deal with this yourself in prayer. I firmly believe in the power of prayer. I'm alive only because of the power of prayer, a loving GOD, and a good doctor.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 37:39-40 NASB  But the salvation of the righteous is from the LORD; He is their strength in time of trouble. The LORD helps them and delivers them; He delivers them from the wicked and saves them, Because they take refuge in Him.

You can start by removing yourself from the source. Sacrifice any medium and device you use to access pornography.  Fellowship more with other Christians. When you feel "the urge" to give into temptation drop on your knees and pray..  A television or computer is not worth an eternity of suffering!!!! You are in my prayers..

Hello MusicMedic5150,

I agree with you completely. It would be much better to give the computer and television away if the person is incapable of controlling them.

I see that you are new, and I haven't had a chance to welcome you, so WELCOME!


I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite. I'm looking forward to reading your posts and having fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 3:21-22 NASB  But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

these last couple of posts were the kinds of responses I was looking for when I first started visiting this thread.  You see I've had some pretty big problems with sin as well (as well as all of us), but like it was stated (in this thread) when I tried to seek out help from church family and friends I was shuned and rebuked and ridiculed but not helped.  I think that the over-all intent of this thread was to find those who may have been in this position; wanting the help, seeking the help, but only finding rebuke.

So many times when I sought help I was told that "It's wrong" "you're living in sin" "You need to repent".  Which I in turned answered them, "I know" "I can read (the bible)" "I've did".  For which they responded with "just stop" "don't do it anymore" "repent means to change your way of thinking and not do it anymore".

But what I have come to find out was that there are some things (Most things in my opinion) for which we are not designed to handle alone.  It takes us coming together and helping folks walk through it.  It would have worked better for me to hear things like "You need to change your environment (with examples of things that should be changed)" or "I'll lhelp you, call me when you get the urge and we can talk" or maybe something like what was said here.

I'm not condoning the act of sinning, but the problem with it is that it's hard to fight alone or without the proper information of how it works and how it's affecting us.  If someone knows how it gets in, how it can be stopped and is able to follow it up with more ways of staying aware of it, then that's the kind of things that need to be shared.  I grew up in the church under many different denominations, but that was because I didn't "have" the information that I do now. I couldn't honestly identify what was truth and what was false, and don't ask me then if I understood what the bible told me, back then I would have said yes, but today I know that I didn't.

This is a very touchy issue from both sides, Pastors and Ministers do need to set the example and do need to be above reproach, but  like any person (man) they will sin and make mistakes.  Set the example by taking every Christian means necessary to solve the problem, but never try to cover it up.  If time aafter time you cannot over come it then by all means find another way to serve the Lord.  But what about those who haven't put forth the necessary effort, what about those that are just starting to head down that path.  Where do they go for help (remembering that trying to fix it yourself is a plan of the enemy)?

Some advice given here may be what is needed to set them off on the right path to recovery.

Thank you Music Medic and Black Eyed Pea for coming back and saying "Hey, do this....; The Word tells us this..and this is what that means and this is how you can put it to use..."  These were the kinds of things that I needed, I'm glad that I finally got... but you might be surprised where it came from...

This is why I want to minister, most folks need more than just "it's wrong, so fix it."

Please don't misunderstand me.  I just didn't have a lot of help applying the Word to my life.  I read it and read it and only thought that I understood it, but never knew how to make it work or how to apply it.  Now I have a new found understanding, have learned to really "study" the bible.  I read it with dictionay and concordance, several translations and expositories, pen and paper and with Aramaic and Hebrew dictionaries and thesaurases just to make sure that I can try to get a better and more accurate understanding of it.

So many things in here were true and are Truth, but the one thing that was missed is that knowing what is true isn't always enough, sometimes a little advice and understanding the truth and knowing how to overcome what's wrong in your life helps you to understand how "the truth will set you free..."

Jesus Christ came so that we all might have life and have it more abundantly, but He also told us how to get it in a way that the majority could understand, then He spent the rest of the time speaking out to those who may not have understood, or may not have gotten the message so that He could explain it even further in a way that they would understand.

Hello HeirToHisRiches,

The truth was given here, and there really isn't any mystery or difficulty in finding the truth. In my firm opinion, the devil is using "wallowing in sin" issues like this to ruin many Christian forums and many churches. In fact, they have come so far out into the open that many so-called churches and Christian forums are conforming to the world and departing from basic Biblical doctrines.

The examples are all around us and in the Christian news every day. Large churches and networks of churches are even adopting evil as normal and putting the devil's servants in charge. So, some so-called churches and Christian forums are little more than dens of iniquity. Pleasing each other, pleasing the world, and making each other comfortable while they wallow in sin has become their religion, and pleasing GOD is no longer an issue.

What we are really talking about here is a disease, and the devil wants to infect everyone with it. That's why the devil wants to bring it out in the open and make it seem to be more and more common. After all, if it's common, people don't have to feel so bad about wallowing in it. If someone truly wants help in dealing with wallowing in sin, private and more concentrated personal ways are much more effective, and they limit the devil's ability to snare and devour more victims. The opposite is being done by many so-called churches. Abominations are being placed in pulpits, and whole so-called congregations and being made comfortable in their sins. Some might want to throw rocks at me and call me self-righteous for daring to make a statement like this, BUT - I could really care less. I didn't claim any righteousness, but I serve ONE who is HOLY and completely RIGHTEOUS - JESUS CHRIST! I have ZERO desire to be politically correct or make folks happy who are wallowing in sin. The TRUTH of GOD'S WORD is the answer, and it's MOST KIND.

Love In Christ,
Tom


1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

@ Black Eyed Pea -  I hope that you understand that I agree with you.  Especially about 'wallowing' in it. 

Hello HeirToHisRiches,

I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. The purpose for my post was trying to point out what appears to be a growing problem that is out of control, and I'm certainly not talking about the sole issue of pornography. I would be talking about a host of worldly issues that appear to be devouring hosts of people. There appears to be fewer people by the day who are willing to stand up and state the truth. The TRUTH isn't touchy feely, it makes people unhappy, and it convicts people of their sins. We ALL need a heavy dose of the TRUTH frequently, and I do mean ALL of us. GOD'S WORD is just as powerful and TRUE as it was 2,000 years ago, and the WORD contains prescriptions for us that will never be matched by men. There is certainly a time and place for doctors, psychologists, counselors, and other people who are well-equipped to help others. When I say well-equipped, I would certainly include the WORD of GOD at the top of the list.

I recently took a look at many Christian forums, and I was disappointed with what I saw. I'm not even hinting that we come close to doing everything right here, but we are trying to keep JESUS and the CROSS as a primary focus and other Biblical TRUTHS as the vast majority of the content here. We have been the subject of many attacks and criticism here, but I think that GOD is happy with the work being done. I'll just give thanks that many sweet Christians have joined us and GOD is making a way for us to continue. This is a good opportunity to remind all Christians that we should be praying for GOD'S WORK around the world. May GOD give all of us the guidance and strength to keep standing until HE comes to take us home.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Matthew 25:35-40  NASB  'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

James 1:14.  "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
 15.  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

1 Peter 4:1.  "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
 2.  That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."

Where is the heart, the spirit of man that he will go after what he wants in the flesh and not what God wants walking in the Spirit?

Lay hold upon yourself to be guided by the Holy Spirit of God in the light that shines forth through the Christ.

Donot allow yourself to fall victim and revel in the things of the devil that abide in darkness and put you in the dark.

ollie

im a teen and i have a really hard time ..i admit i am an addict. its difficult to get through this. can anyone give advice? cuz i am spiritually getting drained out..i need help plz somebody ...

Hi daryl,

The only that can help you here is God and yourself. When you feel tempted turn to Him. Immerse yourself in Him through prayer, Bible study in any means. Fill your thoughts and your heart with Jesus. Do all you are able to avoid those things that bring such temptations to you and replace them with the things of God.

I will also pray for you in this matter.

I too was adicted to pornography of all sorts.  And recently the old man is resurrecting.  I have to die daily.  I need to nail the old man to the cross.  When i get stressed out on the computer, its easy to type in (words removed, not appropriate for a Christian forum) ....  I dont do it on purpose it comes out.  Then  I have to stop myself.  I m going to start praying before going online for the spirit to control my actions and thoughts.  Girl pictures are everywhere.  Sex is everywhere.  We cant hide.  So I learned to apprecitate the beauty of women and accept the fact thay they are made arousingly.  After all we are men.  So I plead the blood over my senses and ask the Holy Spirit to control my daily actions.  The good news is that when I gave my life to Jesus, all the garbage was removed ie the sexual addiction.  Now I must fight the mind to ressurect.   I dont want to let in a little fellow (demon) or open a door.  So I stay as pure as I can and when I fall, I repent and accept forgiveness and dont condemn myself.  Thats what the enemy wants self condemnation.  So forgive us Lord for allowing our former selves to ressurect, (words removed due inappropriate for a Christian forum).  Forgive us Lord for not being pure.  Show us Lord in fact Control us Lord in all we do think and feel.  Let Your Spirit overwhelm us and fill us to overflowing.  Teach us to see your daughters as you see your precious flowers.  And thank you Satan for reminding me to repent for the sexual impuraties in my Life.  I repent Father for sexual impurity and for not keeping in line with your holy inerrant word.  I bless you brother with the Love Yeshua has for you and I ask him to pour out his river onto you now.  Fill him Lord.

 ???

Self-condemnation on immorality isn't from an enemy. That would be your conscience telling you that you are doing something wrong. This would depend on who you think the enemy is. I see that you've made yourself a guest, so we won't get to find out who you think the enemy is. The devil wants you to enjoy immoral acts and keep doing them. For Christians, the devil is the enemy, and the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD is our ally and guide. Having a conscience and recognizing right from wrong is a good thing. The enemy of Christians, the devil, wants the opposite for us. The devil doesn't want any Christian to have a pleasing testimony for CHRIST, and the devil certainly doesn't want any Christian to have strength in CHRIST. Strength in CHRIST means that the devil loses his control and dominion over us, and the devil doesn't like that.

To help some with any possible confusion - the devil, sin, and immorality is the enemy. I will add that your use of vulgar language on a Christian family forum is evidence that the enemy is trying to use you. It might also be evidence that you need to be rescued from the curse of sin and death.


1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

God Bless you all for coming to confess your sins infront of others so that you might be forgiven. 

I believe it is sad that none of you so called disciples haven't come up with that one.  Jesus tells us to confess, these people are coming to you with a problem.  They are calling for your help, and some young lady weak in faith has to be the first to tell them what they are doing by coming here for help is right.  I believe you all need to take a look at what you are saying and expecting of one another.

A friend of mine was heavily addicted to porn.  I was not the loving friend I am today that can discuss it quietly and without demands.  I yelled and told him that God saw what he was looking at.  His excuse was that God tells us to admire the opposite sex.  Admire is not a gawk, stare or anything else.  I can admire a mans body without "elevator eyes".  I don't end up drooling or making a private idiot of myself.  Now I understand that each persons sin is their own and all i can do is try to help when help is needed.  First off, if you have a computer that you share with another person, ask them to put on a parental blocker for your log-on.  This will be a nucense at first, because they will have to type in the password a million times for everything good that you view, but after a while it will get better.  Also, try to look up beating pornography at the library or online. 

I went to another forum when I was super stressed about it and they directed me to a Christian Recording Artist named Clay Crosse.  He was addicted to pornography and he and his wife wrote a book about it.  I suggest that you try to find the link (since links are removed here) and do what you can to get this book.  It helped me understand things from the other side.  And verified what I was thinking about my friend.  It also helped me correct my thinking and how I came to my friend with this issue.

I can do nothing other than pray for you on this matter, so please, do not be afraid to confess your sins, even if it is to a stranger on a message board.  You are doing something right. 

While it is commendable that they came here confessing their sins it takes more than just that. The most important thing is to confess their sins to God, ask for forgiveness and take responsibility by taking steps to get out of this addiction. That is what was simply stated here. Not judging or criticizing but proper Biblical advice. All too often people take such advice as being cruel and condemning.

This was in fact done with thought and prayer of what was said and what is expected, especially so of a minister.

Hello Stryder1030,

I think that you talked about one of the main things wrong with our societies today and the root cause of rapid moral erosion. Everyone wants to feel good about doing horrible things, so there is a big push for being politically correct.

I could care less about being politically correct. In fact, it is cruel in many ways to withhold the truth from people. There will be tons of politically correct folks in HELL. There is NO feel good wallowing in sin and darkness GOSPEL unless it's from the devil. Remaining silent or CALLING EVIL GOOD is usually EXCEPTIONALLY CRUEL! It is KIND AND LOVING to tell the TRUTH from a Biblical perspective. The stakes are very high - ETERNITY.

SO, I for one will call evil "EVIL" and sin "SIN". I will do this from a Biblical perspective, and I could care less what the politically correct folks think. In fact, if the politically correct folks approve of me and what I do and say, THAT WOULD GIVE ME NIGHTMARES! Christians are NOT to be conformed to this world, and Christians should care less about popularity contests.

I feel like I have been far too shy in trying to express my opinions about this issue. Withholding the truth, calling evil good, and political correctness have turned our societies into sewers in just a few decades. It's becoming very difficult to get away from the stench and filth. As a result, it's a real challenge to raise children today. We've done them a great injustice by allowing all of the sewage out in the open. Many people have grown to like swimming in the sewage so much that they don't want to come out. Sadly, some of these people will be our children and grandchildren. Being politically correct has been THE WORST TYPE OF CRUELTY!

I was a bond agent for 9 years...In the 9 years of this job, I can tell you first hand of the many ministers I had on bond for pornography...and even prostitution...It is not a silent killer but one that is out in the open...the names of these ministers were put in the paper of their crimes...There is nothing that is secret that will be put out in the open...What is sad is the testimony is lost and for some very hard to regain back....

When you come to Jesus...yes..he forgives but you will most certianly have to deal with the consequence of the sin...Not to mention you are responsible for the flock that you minister to for you have stood before them in sin and have turned some away from the faith...We all go through trials and temptations..but greater is He that is in us than He that is in the world...Crucify the flesh daily to hold tight to the word of God that you will not sin against God...For in truth...the sin is not done before men...but before God...

A christian forum that is truly christian will not justify sin...but will point the way to God for those who are not saved...to encourage those who are weak in the faith...To strengthen the weary...to share the love of God with the brethren...May the Lord's hand continue to be on this forum and continually bear fruit that glorifies God...

Amen!

Another Amen MaryJane!

I give thanks that many sweet Christians still struggle every day to fight a good fight, run a good race, and finish their course. Paul explained the war between the old man and the new quite well. All of us must fight this war every day, but we must remember that our help and strength is in CHRIST. May GOD give us all strength and guidance.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Maybe I am too unclear with my words.  I do type in circles I've been told.  I am not justifying the sin.  I am accepting the sinner.  Jesus tells us to acknowledge the sin and accept the sinner, not to ignore the sin and accept the sinner or to accept the sin and ignore the sinner.  What our brother was doing by coming here for help is not wrong.  Jesus tells us to confess to one another as well as to our Lord.  Maybe our brother does not feel that confessing to his congregation is in his best interest right now but wishes to confess to strangers.  Let him confess how he sees fit.  He is doing nothing wrong with coming here.

I also gave inspiration on how to help himself as best I could.  I am not a man, I am not a minister and I am not addicted to pornography, I am not in his shoes.  But I am offering what I can, kind words and hopeful direction.

Let him be healed before he confesses to his congregation, but for now, he should step down and seriously pray.

I could quote the bible too and tell him where the bible says it's wrong, he KNOWS it's wrong and is coming here for a little assistance.  So what if he gave some insite from a site he's read.  You are all denying that it happens.  Denying it is the leading cause of sin.  IT HAPPENS.  ALL SIN HAPPENS.  It's nothing we should deny but in turn accept and forgive just as Jesus taught, because NONE of us are any better.

Hi Stryder,

No one here has denied that such sin does happen. Nor has anyone here ignored any of these people or their problem. No one has said that coming here for help was wrong either. Excellent Biblical advice as well as prayers were offered in this. Advice has also been given in this thread to help one avoid the temptations of this sin.

It is a wonderful thing that you feel compassion towards others in these matters but we must not confuse or cover up the truth of the matter by calling it a lack of compassion or anything else. The most compassionate thing a Christian can do is to tell the truth to people. This person does in fact need to step down from the pulpit until such time as he has, with God's help, overcome this problem. A pastor cannot be a truly effective pastor while struggling with something that has such a strangle hold on him. He does need to seek one-on-one counselling and he definitely needs to seek God's forgiveness. This is exactly what has been said.

Pastors, preachers, are human like the rest of us, so why single them out in any given sin?

We are all to help keep one another out of the coming fire.

Jude 1:21.  "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
 22.  And of some have compassion, making a difference:
 23.  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

Pastors and preachers are not singled out in these verses. The letter is addressed "to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:"

ollie

Singled out in any given sin? No more than any follower of Christ. However a pastor or any other person that is leading the flock "must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

There maybe those that are weak in the faith but anyone that is leading God's flock must be strong in the faith else they may lead them astray. The Bible says quite clearly must be not may be.

This is not an issue for discussion but for prayer and deliverance...to continally set your mind on this sin is to fall into it and lead yourself and often others astray...but set your mind on things above and read the word...surround yourself with christians who will pray for you and disciple you...

We must all learn to avoid temptation of any sort.  When a person is first tempted to look at pornography (or do any other evil), this is the time to turn your back on that temptation.  Flee it.  If a person has already fallen into this sin, one must turn away from it.  Resist it.

As Jesus said: 
If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.  Matthew 5:29

Brother Paul that is a tough topic, because it is destroying our society in ways that
we refuse to notice.  Our children are having to deal with Adultery, Fornication, Divorce, and all other types of illicit things that stem from pornography.  How can we
stop it?  By bring our bodies under subjection to Christ!  That is what the Apostle Paul said that he brings his body under subjection to Christ.  For we can only accomplish this through the Grace of God.  We need to become examples to our
children and grandchildren in the home, and in the body of Christ.  That how we overcome pornography.   There is so much more that I would like to add, I just need more time to reply.  May God bless you with this struggle, we all need to keep our eyes on Jesus and he will lift us up!

Hello!

I realize this thread is somewhat dated, but I wanted to add my thoughts regarding this issue.

The best response is always biblically based and with love. Therefore I offer the following for all to prayerfully consider...


As has already been pointed out, we must examine ourselves, "to see whether you are in the faith" (2 Cor 13:5).

Related Scriptures:

• 1 Thess 5:21 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Thessalonians+5:21)
• 1 Tim 3:10 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Timothy+3:10)
• James 1:2-25 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=James+1:2-25) <<< Most applicable to this topic.

May God always be your greatest need and may Christ always be your greatest treasure.

Your servant and brother in Christ,
Karl

Amen Kdr22!

As Christians, we should all know that our lives will be one of warfare. The devil doesn't want us to "WALK IN THE SPIRIT", and the devil certainly doesn't want us to have a living testimony for CHRIST. So, we should expect attacks by the devil. Paul explained this warfare very well and gave a solution:  Put on the Whole Armour of GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 NASB
But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Its my first day here and i thought i would enjoy the company of brothers in the Lord until i read your posts. The way you have responded to Brother Paul's topic is totaly not in the LOVE of Christ. Is that the only solution you have? That any man and/or woman of GOD who struggles with sin should be removed from their positions? Couldnt you think of prayer for him atleast? Jesus sad we should love each other, as it is the only way the world will know that we are His. In essence, what He was saying is that we must suffer long and be kind towards each other (1 cor 13:4). Taking your respond and this scripture, do you see any similarity in them? Do you find kindness in your respond? Im obligated, as a result of your attitute, to think that you will tear out all apostle Paul's letters if you can realy understand his matter in Romans 7:15-25 and compare it to our fellow brother here's problem. What heals sin? condemnation or the blood of JESUS? Who determines who is worthy to pastor or not? You or GOD? Brother Paul, keep up the faith, and dont lose heart, GOD in His own appointed time will deliver you, just hold on and keep up the Faith, no man appointed you, GOD did, and He will not let any man disappoint and discourage you. Im praying for you.

Hmmm another one that wants to ignore God's word. If a person is dealing with the sin of homosexuality and actively still participating in it, should they stay behind the pulpit? If a person is actively participating in any type of extra-marital affairs, should they stay behind the pulpit? If a person is having difficulty in overcoming any specific sin then they are not able to properly council others in this area. No, there is no pastor that is perfect but they are not to be buried under the burden of a sin that they have not properly dealt with.

1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

It is such an attitude as yours that has permitted evil to creep into the churches. As for prayers, they were offered to him so your judgment is all askew. There was much good Christian advice straight from the Bible that was given to this person that should have been heeded. This advice may seem harsh but it was given in love and in accordance to God's word. It would have been totally without love if it had not been given in truth.

The blood of Jesus does heal sin but His condemnation is still strong for those that ignore His word and continue in deceitful, sinful practices.

Amen Pastor Roger

A Pastor is suppose to be able to lead by example.

UM? I would first say AMEN to Pastor Roger's reply to you.

You must not have read the thread and/or you don't have a beginning Biblical knowledge of the issues. In this case, they are as blunt and clear as the nose on your face and impossible to argue from a Biblical perspective.

I'll say WELCOME to you anyway. If you don't like the TRUTH of GOD'S WORD, I doubt that you will like it here. We're not interested in being politically correct here on issues where the BIBLE tells it straight and in an unmistakable manner. You really should pay attention to what GOD SAYS FIRST!

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Peter 3:3-13 NASB  Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

to answer your question that has disappeared.

When dealing with who can be a Pastor, it isn't the sin itself but how often it is committed.

I must really be missing something here.  Sin is sin.  Scripture tells us to " go and sin no more".  What is so hard to understand about that. Pastor Roger said it all, straight from the word of God. Amen to that. It seems there are some who like to "transfer" God's word into whatever and however they want it to work. Just doesn't work that way. In a way it's like everyone is yelling "it's my right - I have the right to ?? " Yes our country has a bill of rights and you can yell all you want.  Maybe it should be called a " bill of responsibility".  Everyone wants the right but no one wants the responsibility. The same with the word of God, you can read it all you want and yell but you have the responsibility to God our Father to follow his commandments.  What is against God is "against God".