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Speaking in Tongues is Biblical?!?

Ok first off many people now days think of the modern Charismatic movement in which people will get together and in the middle of service or something the Holy Ghost comes through and suddenly everyone is speaking in a gibberish.  And they call this speaking in tongues.

And there is basis for this in the Bible.  I am not certain what Bible it is that there is basis for this, but that is what they will say.  They may even say that Paul spoke in tongues.  Here we will take a look at what the Bible states about speaking in tongues and things of that nature.

First off the word tongue or tongues is referring to one of two things.  Either the tongue , the muscle in your mouth used to lick a sucker.  Or a language.  A language being a series of words built into sentences and phrases that allow for communication between at least 2 people.  Usually associated with a country, region, or nation.

As early as Gen 10:5 we see the use of the word tongue to describe language.  "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their family, in their nations"  

Isaiah 66:18 "For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory."  God lets us know that at one day he will gather up to him all people by their nations and even by the language they speak.

But what we end up finding is that in the NT is where the movement to speak in tongues comes from.  They will site some verses in Acts and the Corinthians.  But let us take a look at some of what the Bible has to say about tongue and tongues.

First the Bible lets us know what speaking in tongues is for.  Take a look at Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"  So to speak in tongues is for signs. Now take a quick look at 1 Corinthians 1:22 "For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom"  So signs such as speaking in tongues is for confirmation and a sign to the Jews.

So one thing we see is that tongues (plural) is a good thing and is Biblical.  What we will find out is that when referring to speaking in tongues is mentioned they are known tongues or languages.  But unknown tongue(s) will be a bad thing as shown by the Bible and when people speak in an unknown tongue or language it is cause for confusion which God is not the author of.

So take a look over in Acts 2:4-12 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Now this is the first case we see of speaking in tongues.  And we see that everyone was filled with the Holy Ghost.  So we know that to predicate speaking in tongues is due to an act by the Holy Spirit.  And we see that they began to speak with other tongues.  Now who is mentioned here in the next verse.  "there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven".  Earlier how did we see nations also divided?  By their tongue or their language.  So here we have many devout Jews from different nations that speak different languages.  The Holy Spirit comes down and fills those preaching so that they speak in tongues.  And what happens?  All of the Jews from all of the different laguages can understand them.  It was not because they understood a new language, some hidden unknown language, but that those preaching understood them in their own language.  Those that came from Mesopotamia understood what was being said in his own language not a different one.  And what do they say about it?  "we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God"  It is a sign to those Jews there that they are able to understand these people in their own language.

End Pt 1

Pt 2

Later in Acts 10:45-46 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, becaue that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Here is the second instance mentioned of speaking with tongues.  Notice again it starts off with "they of the circumcision", who is that?  Jewish people.  Now it does state which believed so these are converted Jews who have found Christ.  But it says they were astonished which implies they were amazed at the action.  It was a sign unto them of the power of Jesus and to re-inforce their faith.  But what were they amazed at?  the gift of speaking in other languages was poured out to the Gentiles and not just the Jews.  And again it is Peter and the sort who are speaking and everyone is able to understand them no matter where they came from or what language they spoke.  So the language is known and like before it is their own language and not a new language or unknown language or secret language or anything of that nature.

Now that we have seen speaking with tongues in action and see what it is, let us take a look at what we often see today and see if that is Biblical.  Let us take a look at what the Bible has to say about speaking in an unknown tongue.  You mean to tell me, Brother Jerry, that there were people speaking gibberish back in early church?!  Yes I am.  The problem of peope speaking gibberish is nothing new.

So now we start looking at what Paul had to say...and he did say alot.  First one thing Paul states about it is found in 1 Corinth 12:10-11 "To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues; But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

Here Paul is talking about the gifts which God may give us.  We see the gift of miracles and such.  We see "diverse kinds of tongues" as in being fluent in many different languages. "interpretation of tongues" as in being able to interpret written languages and spoken word.  Maybe not able to speak but able to interpret at least one language.  So here Paul refers to tongues as different languages.

Now turn a couple of pages over to chapter 14.  Here is where Paul really gets into it.

1 Corinth 14:2-4 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.  But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.  He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."

Here we see it pretty simple.  The person who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not people but to God, for no one can understand him.  Paul is not saying that this a good thing.  If you are to be preaching to people it does not good to preach in a language the cannot understand.  Paul even tells us towards the end there why someone would speak in an unknown tongue that no one can understand "edifieth himself", in otherwords that person is doing it for their own glory and not that of the church.

Skip down to 1 Corinth 14:9-11 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.  There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

Paul mentions that there are many voices in the world.  Using voices to mean languages.  He goes on to state that they are all significant.  In other words they all are a means of communication.  Paul states if he does not know the language then he will like a barbarian and vice versa.  And at the beginning Paul says that if you utter words you should do it in an understandable way, otherwise how are we to tell what you are saying?  IF not you are just speaking into the air (talking to youself).

1 Corinth 14:13-19 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Paul tells us here that if anyone speaks in an unknown tongue then there should be 2-3 and no more there.  The first to speak, the second to interpret.  Then the second to speak and the 3rd to interpret.  Basically Paul lets us know that one person should not interpret what it was they were saying.  If a man gets up and speaks gibberish then tells you what it was he was saying, you should Biblically tell him to sit down and shut up and wait for the interpreter to get there :)

So in a nutshell we see that speaking with tongues is Biblical.  But speaking in an unknown tongue is not.  We have seen examples and guidance.  Paul has provided us a way to meter and weigh the value of someone speaking in a strange tongue.  If it is unknown to us that does not mean it is not a language.  For example I probably would not recognize nor understand Swahili if I heard it.  But that does not mean it is not a language.  I would just need to get an interpreter.  Paul told us to have 2 at least for a couple of reasons...If there is one person and he can speak both Swahili and English why is he talking in Swahili if only to translate to English?! But take a load off and get an interpreter to interpret.  Also you then do not have to worry as much about putting too much faith in one persons preaching of the word....ie misinterpret or translate. 

So we see that the purpose of speaking with tongues is for a sign.  The sign is for the Jews because they require a sign.  Not only does Paul state this but if you read through the Gospels you will see quite often a Jewish group asking Jesus for a sign.  So speaking in tongues is a sign for the Jews, to emphasize that the power is coming from God.  And the tongues that is spoken is not in an unknown or gibberish or anything but it is their own language.  So you would see the person speaking but hear them in your own language.  This is greatly different than what we see in some churches today.  You get nothing but a confusing babel of gibberish.  And the key word there is confusion...what did Paul state in 1 Corinth 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion..."

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

why do you ask a question, and then give your opinion as the answer?

This topic would be better served in the debate section, and thus I will not answer here.
If you would like to move this topic to the debate forum, and be willing to have an open
mind instead of quoting church(not bible) teaching I would be happy to discuss your
question

respectfully yours:

ravenloche

Hi ravenloche,

If you notice there is not just question marks but exclamation points also. It was not meant as a question for others to answer on here.

If you wish to discuss this topic there are already many threads in the debate section where you can address your concerns.

if speaking in tongues edifies me
and i am part of the church
is not the church being edified?

I have heard that many times before. Your answer is clearly given here:

1Co 14:3  But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4  He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

if a body builder works on only mussel group today
would you say that be body is not being built?

Unfortunately many concentrate on the "mussel group" of speaking in tongues and ignore the more important aspects of building the body.

i guess in your view the body has no tongue

I have never said that, nor have I given that indication. What I have said is that, although speaking in tongues has had it's place it is not the most important gift as it is not the one that edifies the body. I strongly suggest that you reread 1 Cor 14 with much prayer before you start. The problem with most advocates of speaking in tongues is that put it above all else.

1Co 14:22  Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: ...

1Co 14:12  Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

One of the things that many bodybuilders do is to work on those muscles that are seen by others and ignore the condition of the heart.

Good point PR.

Cause I was going to mention that they may be building muscle mass but they can also be ignoring bone mass, as well as other important aspects of the entire body.

Jerry
guess then  i just will have to be a barbarian
to you when i talk to God
for my edification.
God understands what i am saying
even if you do not.
And He is pleased because i do it in faith.

That is another good point. God does understand what is being said.

you are just plain wrong on that one roger
God said, "I do understand you Bob."

Bob,

How do you clarify 1 Corinthians 14:13-19?  "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

Here we see that Paul clearly states that if anyone speaks in an unknown tongue then let there be 2 or three there so that one may interpret.  If there is no interpreter then keep silent in church. 

Paul mentions confusion in these verses.  If one single man speaks to God in an unknown language and then turns around and that one man tells you what the conversation is about, how easy is it for that one man to lead a congregation astray?  Look at cults today and how they act.  (this is in no way saying that the holiness churches and such are cults so please do not take it that way).  Our churches are not to be "dependant" upon the congregation leaders.  This is also why Paul said that there should be someone to translate...the more people understanding what is going on with their own ears, the less confusion there is. 

And imagine the poor lost soul out there seeking.  Comes to service and suddenly people are preaching and speaking in an unknown language.  To what benefit is that of God?  While those speaking in tongues may be edified, God is not and that lost soul leaves the church confused.  That is the glory of Jesus is that it is pure and simple.  There is no secret rituals or chants or hidden tricks.  It is simple acceptance. 

Let me also ask you this?  From the Bible could you please explain why the act of speaking in tongues is a new concept and not something that happened before Christ?

You are really quick to jump and think the negative of everyone. I didn't say anything other than that. Read it again, I said "God does understand what is being said." I think that it is you that seems to be having a hard time understanding, not God.

BTW why do you use the word prophet in your user name?

Paul mentions confusion in these verses.  If one single man speaks to God in an unknown language and then turns around and that one man tells you what the conversation is about, how easy is it for that one man to lead a congregation astray? 

Paul says that in order to edify the church

1 Cor. 14:13  Wherefore let him that speaketh in and unknown tongue pray the he may interpret.

He seemed to think the danger you warn of is to be prayed for.

Yes it is still very easy to deceive in such a case but this is why God tells us in 1Cor 14

1Co 14:9  So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.


The edification that is spoken of is to be through words that are easy to understand.


You still have my question to answer:

BTW why do you use the word prophet in your user name?

Because that is what God  Almighty the Father
of Jesus Christ called me.

"....My servants the prophets."

Yes Bob you have left out the rest of chapter 14 which is concerning speaking in tongues as well. 

Skip down just a little from vs 13 you cited.  Take a look at verse 19
"Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."
Now why do you think that Paul would say that it is better to speak 5 meager words that someone can understand and be taught to others than to speak 10,000 words that no one else can understand?

The answer is back in verse 4
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that phophesieth edifieth the church.
Now look down at verse 12 and you will see what we should strive for
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Now keep in mind that Paul's use of the word church here is similar to that of what Christ's use was...the church is the body of Christ.  We are not to edify the church we go visit every weekend.  The building in which we have our services...but Jesus Christ. 

We can even look down at verse 16
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
Even here Paul is asking the question that while you are speaking in an unknown language (in tongues) and claim to be giving thanks, asking for blessings, and praising Jesus, how is the unlearned person...which means the unsaved, to "say Amen", meaning receive Jesus, if he does not understand what is being said and thus does not understand what is going on?  This is a retorical question that Paul is asking.  The answer is that this unsaved person has no way of knowing or hearing the Word if it is spoken in an unknown language.

I believe that you are referring to the phrase from the Book of Revelations. He was not calling all of His servants prophets.

Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


A prophet is a foreteller, a person illuminated, inspired or instructed by God to announce future events. Do you claim to foretell the future?

We are told in 1 Cor 14:

1Co 14:37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Yet you seem to have a problem with 1 Cor 14.

 

I still don't understand what speaking in tongues is, also what is edification? Is speaking in tongues necessary?

I will start with the easy one.
Edification: Intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement; enlightenment.
By edification the in these verse the Bible is talking about a person making spiritual improvements.
Paul states that those speaking in tongues is edifying themselves and not the church... attempting to improve themselves and not the church.

Now there are two ways to look at speaking in tongues.  The Biblical way and the common way it is thought of today in primarily Charismatic churches.  When the Bible uses the term tongues as in plural it is speaking of different languages.  The term "speaking in tongues" today is referred to an event in which the Holy Spirit moves upon a person or group of people and they begin to speak in an unknown language.  These folks believe that they are speaking to God and in a language that only God understands.  To anyone else it sounds like gibberish.  These people cannot even understand each other.  It is only to God.

This is not a Biblical practice and the verses explained above show this.  Keep in mind that I am not saying in any way shape or form that people that practice this are not saved or anything of that nature, only that this practice is not Biblically sound.

Hope that helps

Yes, that helped. Thank you

roger
RE:  reply 12
the apparent error i made will not happen again
now that i know how to use the quote feature.

I know you will forgive me.

I believe that you are referring to the phrase from the Book of Revelations. He was not calling all of His servants prophets.

Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


1Co 14:37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Yet you seem to have a problem with 1 Cor 14.

Contrary to your belief.
 I was not quoting that verse.
I made reference to an audible voice of God
that was spoken in the early 1980's
while i was being ejected from a so called prayer meeting.
The full quote is, "This is the way you have always treated My servants the prophets."
He was speaking about the way they were treating me.

As for 1Cor 14:37   I am both a prophet and spiritual and do acknowledge that the writings of Paul are the  commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Next time you have a pressing question do not cloak it with "BTW".


BTW questions do not demand an answer.

If you are the only one that heard the voice it would seem to me that "you" are the one it was directed at about the treatment of others.

 

FIVE WORDS OF PROPHESY OR TEN THOUSAND WORDS IN TONGUES  ??

1 Cor 14 has the answers for the “charismatic” who is seeking Christian maturity.  (IT’S TIME TO GROW UP!)

1 Cor 14:18-20
18   I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
19   yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding  (NOUS), that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.  (STRONGS # 3563)
20   Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.  (NKJ)  GROW UP !!  (STRONGS # 5424)        (malice - the opposite of excellence - the vicious character)

3563  nous-  UNDERSTANDING
1) the mind, comprising alike the faculties of perceiving and understanding and those of feeling, judging, determining
a) the intellectual faculty, the understanding
b) reason in the narrower sense, as the capacity for spiritual truth, the higher powers of the soul, the faculty of perceiving divine things, of recognizing goodness and of hating evil
c) the power of considering and judging soberly, calmly and impartially
2) a particular mode of thinking and judging, that is, thoughts, feelings, purposes, desires

5424  phren-  UNDERSTANDING  -  ONLY HERE IN N.T.
1) the midriff or diaphragm, the parts of the heart
2) the mind; the faculty of perceiving and judging

1 Cor 2:14-16
14   But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15   But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
16   For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind  (NOUS !)  Christ.  (STRONGS # 3563)   (NKJ)


Tongues   - for Paul are prayers - they only praise, worship, give thanks and adore God – v2a -  i.e. speak to God.

1 Cor 14:2
2   For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.  (NKJ)

“ -  v16-17  - bless with the Spirit - giving thanks.

1 Cor 14:16-17
16   Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
17   For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.  (NKJ)

                                             Any correct spiritual interpretation of tongues must reflect this fact !

An interpretation of tongues must never be prophesy - it can only be prayer !


Public tongues are only for the unbeliever or uninformed - v22

1 Cor 14:22
22   Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.(NKJ)

Therefore, when any number of born again Christians gather to pray, there should be no tongue speaking
 

 Self interpretation of tongues is not scriptural –  (this is a common error)

              v13  - pray that he (another) may interpret (+ 1 Cor 12:10)

1 Cor 14:13
13   Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.   (he = someone else) (NKJ)

1 Cor 12:7, 10
7   But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
10 …to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.  (NKJ)


              v 26 – each has a an interpretation

1 Cor 14:26
26   How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each (one) of you has a psalm,  has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.  (NKJ)

              v28 – no interpreter – keep silent      no self interpretation !

1 Cor 14:28
But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.  (Silently)


Tongues are for self edification  -  v4  - 
1 Cor 14:4

4      He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.(NKJ)



Tongues must be orderly  -  v 27 – each in turn  v33 – not a God of confusion

1 Cor 14:27
27   If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.

1 Cor 14:33
33    For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.  (NKJ)



Prophecy saves the unbeliever  -  vs24-25                            

1 Cor 14:23-25
23          Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 
24   But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.
25   And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.    (NKJ)


Prophesy must be judged  - v29

1 Cor 14:29-32
29   Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
30   But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.
31   For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
32   And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.  (NKJ)

However brethren, whatever tongues is, The Lord knows and left this specific instruction for us:

"Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues."  1 Corinthians 14:39 NKJV

Prophesy is not simply fortune telling, brothers , it is also special messages from God, often uttered through human spokesmen, which indicate the divine will for mankind on earth and in heaven.

a big fat....

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/tinabaran/116446471384694.gif)

Dear brother Gerry,

I have read both your articles and noticed that you have chosen only those texts which support your argument which, by the way is incorrect in information. It was not Peter who spoke in tongues in Cornelius' home but those of Cornelius' household. I could not accept your argument concerning speaking in tongues on the basis of the selectivity of your references which, I might add, I feel you interpret to your own ends. Put it forward again and be more conclusive in your evidence.

Love,

Kerry.

Kerry Lou,

First of all welcome to CU.  I do hope that you enjoy your time here and I look forward to continued fellowship with you.

Secondly thank you for reading the posts.

Thirdly.  If you would like to continue where it was left off and provide what you believe to be scripture in support of speaking in unknown tongues I would be glad to read them as well as comment on them.  I did not select scripture that was only supportive of my position but selected scripture which was relevant to the discussion. 

The act of speaking in an unknown tongue during service or other times is not a new occurance.  It was something that went on during Pauls time and was important enough throughout the church at Corinth that Paul had to write about it in 1 Corinthians.  His dissertation about it is that if someone is speaking in a language that no one can understand then they are only edifying themselves and not the church.  And the church being that of Jesus.  And elsewhere throughout the NT we are to edify Jesus and glorify Him and not ourselves.  Paul also states that if someone is to speak in an unknown tongue then there had best be 1-2 translators there.  So that they can translate what was said for everyone else to understand.  Which of course if there is 1 other person there that can understand what is said then it is not an unknown tongue anymore...it is a language or tongue. 

All other verses that could possibly be interpreted as showing support speaking in an unknown tongue must be viewed in light of the simple verses that Paul spoke on the matter.  And when that is done those verses are shown to be interpreted incorrectly.  We must always start wtih the simple and get more complex.  When we have a simple verse in front of us then we cannot attempt to interpret what is meant in the simple verse based on our interpretation of the more complex verses.

But please post what you feel the Bible says in support of that.

And if you go back and read the events at Cornelius' house you will find that everyone was effected.  They all understood what everyone else was saying.  They heard things in tongues.  Notice it is not an unknown tongue, but tongues that is mentioned.  And we see reference to tongues as mentioned before in Acts in which we see that when the event were to happen the people hear what the others are saying in their own language.  Not an unknown language but their own language.

I look forward to reading what you bring to the table.

Brother Gerry,

Let me first say, while I believe in speaking in tongues and as evidence of the baptism in the Spirit, it is not what I am all about. It is a part of the all inclusive experience of salvation brought to us by our Lord Jesus Christ. I have found it both Scriptural and very real. I understand some people's apprehension due to excesses in the Charismatic movement but I will not deny my faith. What I will do is put forward some thoughts and questions and you can answer them as you will.

You seem fixated with this idea about tongues and unknown tongues. One is right and the other is wrong. Yet I am concerned at how you come to your conclusion. So let me first ask you a question, do you know any man who speaks with and understands the languages of the angels (1 Corinthians 13:1)? I know the angels do and that God does but I have yet to meet a man who does.

There is a second question I would like to pose. You often refer to Cornelius' home and the events there. You say that everyone understood everyone else. Are you reading the same Bible as me or, have you concluded because it says, "They heard them speak with tongues and magnify God" that this is sufficient proof that they understood each other? That is a pretty shaky foundation for declaring something to be a truth. Could it not equally be concluded that, because they heard them speak in tongues that they accepted they were glorifying God?

The phrase "unknown tongue" used in Pentecostal and Charismatic circles comes from Isaiah's prophecy in the Old Testament as translated in the KJV, "With a stammering lip and an unknown tongue I will speak to this people." I notice even the NKJV alters this to fit known languages rather than unknown ones. We can get rather semantic if we argue over phrases rather than discuss the doctrine.

Yours in Christ,

Kerry

There is a difference in using unknown tongues and the use of tongues? None of the Greek manuscripts used the word unknown in regards to the use of tongues. This was a word that was added in to some English versions.

We see in Acts 2:4 as it being called "other" tongues and in Acts 2:6 that those present "heard them speak in his own language" and again in Acts 2:11 "we do hear them speak in our tongues" not an "unknown" language. In Acts 10:46 "they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God". If it were in "unknown" tongues how would they know that they were magnifying God? They wouldn't for if it were a language unknown to any of them they may have been praising the devil and no one would have known it.

As for the tongues of Angels, I also ask you what this means. Does it mean that they have a separate language unknown to men or when they speak can they be understood by everyone present even if those present know various different languages? Where in the Bible does it say the angels language cannot be understood by men?

Expanding upon what PR was stating with the "language of the angels", let me address with a couple of questions.
If you consider it a language that is different than the languages of men, how did the angel speak to Joseph and Mary?  The angels that spoke to Lot?  And many other examples.  It is presumption to assume that 1 Corinthians 13:1 is referring to two different languages when we have many examples of angels speaking to men in the languages of men. 

Ok in Acts 10 is the event at Cornelius house.  This is the key turning point of the Gospel from Jew to Gentile.  Until this point Peter and the others primarily focused on the Jews, and many thought that the Word was for them and still not for the Gentile.  We saw earlier where speaking in tongues is for signs, and Jews seek after signs.  This is the sign.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Notice in verse 44 the words "all them which heard the word"  This means that the Holy Ghost did not cause Peter to speak in tongues, but that the Ghost fell upon ALL that heard.  The Ghost went and fell upon the audience. And in this example of speaking in tongues is a listening event more than a speaking event.   But back in Acts 2 it is more of speaking event, for the Holy Ghost fell upon the speakers and they spoke in "other tongues", not new or unknown.  And back in Acts 2 we know what those other tongues were as well.  They were any of the languages that would have been used by the people within listening distance.

Quite simply...no.  Why?  Because the Bible does not say that.  What the Bible does say is "the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word" and follows up with "For they heard them speak with tongues".  It does not say they spoke.  It says they heard.  And from here we have to look elsewhere for further answers, because standing alone these verses could mean either.  Within the same book (Acts) we have another example of "speaking in tongues" back in Acts 2.  And there we see it clearly points out that listener hears the person speaking in their own language and not an unknown language.  Then we continue and we see Paul comments on how those that speak in an unknown language edify themselves and not Christ.  So this confirms that the speaking in tongues mentioned in Acts 10 was another event that dealt with known languages that those who were listening could understand, and it was a sign for the Jews to understand that Gospel and thus God was not God of the Jews, but God of all.

I hope that helps to understand where I come from on that and the Biblical principles I use.  You are correct in that I am sure we could talk about it all day long and not change a thing.  And it is not an issue worth arguing about.  I get the impression your background is Holiness and from what I know of most of them the important stuff is spot on.... Jesus=Son of God, Died on Cross for our sins, rose 3 days later.  Salvation is gift from God, given through Jesus' sacrifice...etc.  So I do not think we will shake each others faith at all...and I am not intending that.  Just good ole fashion Bible study and discussion.

AMEN Brother Jerry!

There is no condemnation for those of us who are IN JESUS CHRIST. Our real fellowship is IN JESUS, and this will be so for ETERNITY. We are already MEMBERS OF THE ETERNAL BODY OF CHRIST, and all of our disagreements will be left behind when we go home to be with HIM. All of man's denominations, labels, and tags will be left behind and useless.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:46 NASB  The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation,

Brothers and Sisters, the following portion of Scripture is the ultimate source of knowledge about tongues in the Holy Bible, and it gives instructions about the acceptable or unacceptable use of tongues. I'll let the Scriptures speak for themselves without any commentary at all.
________________________

1 Corinthians 14:1 NASB  Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14:2 NASB  For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:3 NASB  But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
1 Corinthians 14:4 NASB  One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Corinthians 14:5 NASB  Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
1 Corinthians 14:6 NASB  But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?
1 Corinthians 14:7 NASB  Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?
1 Corinthians 14:8 NASB  For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
1 Corinthians 14:9 NASB  So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.
1 Corinthians 14:10 NASB  There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.
1 Corinthians 14:11 NASB  If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.
1 Corinthians 14:12 NASB  So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.
1 Corinthians 14:13 NASB  Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
1 Corinthians 14:14 NASB  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15 NASB  What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
1 Corinthians 14:16 NASB  Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
1 Corinthians 14:17 NASB  For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.
1 Corinthians 14:18 NASB  I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;
1 Corinthians 14:19 NASB  however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1 Corinthians 14:20 NASB  Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
1 Corinthians 14:21 NASB  In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:22 NASB  So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
1 Corinthians 14:23 NASB  Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
1 Corinthians 14:24 NASB  But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
1 Corinthians 14:25 NASB  the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
1 Corinthians 14:26 NASB  What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1 Corinthians 14:27 NASB  If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;
1 Corinthians 14:28 NASB  but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
1 Corinthians 14:29 NASB  Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.
1 Corinthians 14:30 NASB  But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent.
1 Corinthians 14:31 NASB  For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;
1 Corinthians 14:32 NASB  and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;
1 Corinthians 14:33 NASB  for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1 Corinthians 14:34 NASB  The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Corinthians 14:35 NASB  If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
1 Corinthians 14:36 NASB  Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?
1 Corinthians 14:37 NASB  If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.
1 Corinthians 14:38 NASB  But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1 Corinthians 14:39 NASB  Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:40 NASB  But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

Brother Jerry,

Forgive me, I don't know how to add multiple quotes in my reply to you so I ask you to be paitient in my weakness.

With regards to your reply concerning languages of angels and men. You contend that men understood angels but concluded because those angels spoke the languages of men. That is still not conclusive evidence that angels always speak the languages of men.

With regard to your answer on Acts 10 in Cornelius' home, I am surprised at how you misconstrue the sentence structure. You saying that the Holy Ghost fell upon them because they heard Peter speaking in tongues? That's an interesting twist. Let me tell you how I plainly read and interpret that same passage.

"And those of the circumcision who believed and had come with Peter were astonished because the Gift of the Holy Ghost had been poured out on the gentiles also; for they (of Peter's party) heard them (of Cornelius'household) speak with tongues and magnify God. So Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid these to be baptised in water who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." (paraphrased).

I think, if you were to take it to someone who teaches english structure on subject and matter that this is quite correct. You will find also that it sits more comfortably with the passages of events in Acts 2 and Acts 19.

Let us return to Acts 2 where there is the emphasis of understanding what was being said. We all know that it plainly states that those who heard understood because they heard it in their own language. However, I must ask, how did some conclude that these were drunk (as they derided). Why did Peter, under the annointing of the Holy Spirit feel to defend the accusation? I have met many drunks I could not understand and, let me tell you, none of them were speaking another language. I would have described it in the same manner you describe the Pentecostal/Charismatic utterances common in their churches - gibberish.

I must leave for work now so I'll leave you to consider what I have just said and will return as soon as possible.

Love Kerry.

Hello Brother Kerry,

I would simply ask if the utterances you speak of are according to the Biblical instructions of 1 Corinthians 14. If they aren't, they would represent a violation of the peace and order instructions for our churches.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Matthew 18:4 NASB  "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Dear Tom,

Yes, I believe they are. And also taking into consideration 1 Corinthians 12 & 13. We do not allow declaration in tongues without interpretation. However we do allow the individual to exult in the Lord in tongues which, perhaps is where you would have a problem. You must understand that Tongues is not the central issue of our preaching - though we stand fast in the liberty Christ has given us. It is obviously more important to us that those who hear receive what is being said. I agree with Paul. I would rather speak to you in the language you understand so that you may receive what is been said than to stand on a street corner talking to the air. You may not believe this but you are more important to me than I am to myself.

Love,

Kerry.

Brother Jerry,

Continuing where I left off. Sorry about the break.

It appears, from the reaction in Acts that, although all those who originally heard understood there was some debate afterward about the accuracy of their assumption they had actually understood. Now, I'm sure you would never have convinced those who heard and received that which was said that they had not heard it but, something created doubt so that Peter (led by the Holy Spirit) felt it necessary to defend that which they heard. And how does he begin, "These are not drunk as you suppose." Sounds to me like popular opinion was shifting.

How could the doubters confuse those who had heard so clearly? I believe Isaiah gives us the understanding when he prophesies, "With a stammering lip and (for your sake) foreign languages I will speak to this people." Isaiah 28:11. I am sure you have heard one speak with a stammer? I had a friend who stuttered so bad that he was almost impossible to understand. While I was trying to understand what he was telling me one day I thought, "He sounds just like someone speaking in other tongues." It may not mean much to you but, to me it was like turning a light on. No longer was I skeptical because I saw the Biblical connection to what was happening.

Interestingly, when I first came to know him I needed someone else to interpret what he was saying (even though he was speaking perfect English - just with his bad stutter) until I learned to take the small but clear parts and discern what he had said.

I think that's enough of that.

You mentioned that you perceived that I came under the holiness teaching? I suppose you are right, although I don't have much knowledge of the actual doctrines. I do recall my dad telling me, when I asked why the Assemblies of God here in Australia taught so differently to the one in southern Africa where I grew up that the Assemblies of God in South Africa and Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) came from the holiness movement and was formed by 2 Elim missionaries (Fred and James Mullen) whereas the Asuza Street had not. Although I must add that the most readily available doctrinal books were Baptist (their missions ran the bookstores over there) so you may see that appear on the odd occasion.

Love Kerry.

Hello Brother Kerry,

We can agree to disagree on this issue with no problem. I don't know anyone, even within the same church building, who has 100% agreement on every single issue. This would especially be true for older Christians with many years of Bible study on their own, independent from the church.

This brings up one point that I would like to make. What the Bible teaches is more important than what a particular denomination or affiliation teaches. This is just one reason why a person's own Bible study is very important. Every single thing that a pastor teaches should not be necessarily taken as absolute truth, and this would be true in all churches. This is one reason why I think that most outstanding pastors encourage those in their congregations to study the Bible much more than just an hour or two a week in church.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 11:1-3 NASB  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Kerry Lou

the use of a [ followed by "quote" and then a closing ]  will start the quote.  Then at the end you will do the same thing but in the brackets will be a "/quote" (minus the ")  You can do this as many times as you like in a post.  Hope that helps.

Now as for the reference in Acts 10.  I think you will find that you are incorrect in what an English teacher would say.  Because you are forgetting one thing and that is context.  We can see some more context by looking at the previous verse.  "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."  This lets us know that the Ghost fell upon everyone who heard the word and not the speaker.

So then we look at verse 45 "And they of the circumcision which believed (Jewish Christians) were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the HOly Ghost.  For they (the Jewish Christians) heard them (the Gentiles) speak with tongues, and magnify God..."

And now you agree that back in Acts 2 the event of tongues was a listening event.  The Bible clearly states that they heard them speaking in their own languages.  But yet you want to question what was said and try to say that they were speaking in an unknown language that sounded as though they were drunk? The verse in Acts 2 clearly state in serveral verses that people were hearing others speak in their own languages.  Their only explanation for what they were witnessing could have been that they assumed they were drunk or they themselves were drunk. 

We cannot attempt to read more into the Bible than what is already there.  God's Word is perfect and every word has a purpose.  Not only in Acts 2 but also back in Acts 10 the event of speaking in tongues appears to not be a new or unknown language, but only speaking or hearing in languages that are known.  Paul then writes in Corinthians about speaking in tongues and preaches on how speaking in an unknown tongue is self edification.  And that if anyone speaks in an unknown language then there should be a translator or two around, which by the way as soon as there is another person who understands what is spoken it is no longer an unknown language. 

As far as the language of Angels.  Personally 1 Corinth 13:1 could indicate either way, as far as a language that is both of men and angels, or a language of men as well as a language of angels.  But we have to look further in the Bible and the interaction of angels with man.  What we see is the angels speaking the languages of man.  We are given no other indications of a langauge all their own.  Could there be one?  Sure but it is pure supposition to state that there is.  While there is more evidence Biblically to state that God gave them the gift to understand and speak all of the languages of man.  Or God grants them the gift of a language when needed. 

And I am sure that ultimately as PEB said we will end up agreeing to disagree.  And I also feel that if we would like to continue this then we should do so via email.  My desire is not to show dissent or division within God's body (being us).  And rest assured that none of this is a division on the core doctrine and I am sure that you do not beleive that if one does not speak in tongues that they cannot be saved or anything like that.  Only Jesus may save and accepting Christ is the only way to secure eternal salvation.  The doctrine of speaking in tongues is not an issue of concern when it comes to salvation or the Love Jesus has for us.

AMEN to that PEB.  I have seen far to many people in my life that base their entire walk with what their pastor has to say and not what the Bible has to say.  For most it is OK because their Pastor is right on....but it is not OK because God wants us to study in the Word and grow and prosper.  We should be able to tell someone what the Bible has to say about something, not what our pastor had to say about something.

Brother Gerry,

Sorry, I misunderstood your other post. I thought you were saying that Peter and his group were speaking in tongues and that the household of Cornelius heard (understood supernaturally). I do not deny that is possible but it actually appears we agree on who did the speaking and who heard.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Actually I was getting annoyed with myself because I read the site and know that this is not a preferred subject on this forum. I respect any request that is made of me and did not come to share to cause any angst. I do mourn because I feel that people reject the specific gift of Christ (he will baptise you with the Holy Ghost) and I have no regrets over the way I have followed Christ and have believed. The Father has never let me down. My greatest joy is sharing my enthusiasm with others and learning how Christ has made them anew. We can spend so much time over these things that we forget to take the gospel into the world. I discovered that I was preaching to the converted and forgot so many who are in great peril. I hope you can understnd my heart. I love discussing the Bible but I sincerely grieve everytime I hear of one who has died without knowing Christ as Lord and Saviour.

Once again, sorry for the misunderstanding and, thank you, Tom for your encouragement.

Love,

Kerry.

The only time this subject is not "a preferred subject" is when people put more emphasis on it than they do on the renewing of the spirit. All too often individuals associate it as being the same thing, claiming that if you do not speak in tongues then you have not experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Or sometimes saying "you just don't have enough faith" as if having this gift makes someone closer to God than another, putting more emphasis on tongues than on the more important things. There are many gifts that God imparts to us through the Holy Spirit according to His will, His desires, His purposes. Not all gifts are imparted as we would desire them to be.

What exactly is the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

What PR said.  I know here is the Southern US we have what we call Holiness movements....Charismatic churches which are those that speak in tongues and some many other things...including snake handling and the sort.  And it seems more often than not lately that they are similar to the prosperity gospels that if you are prospering materially then you are not blessed by God.  And more and more are starting to state that if you are not speaking in tongues then you are either not in the graces of God, or have never received God. 

I truly believe that you have your head on strait ;) and understand first and foremost what is right.  And that no matter what tongues is secondary to the Gospel of Jesus.

Have a blessed day.

I can recall as a child visiting a Holiness church with a friend.  Everyone was speaking in tongues, jumping around and falling out.  I had never experienced anything like that and was frightened.  I was told by an adult in the church, if I wanted to join their church, I must be taught to speak in tongues.  They had a room in the basement where they took people to "teach" them how to speak in tongues.  Needless to say, I did not return to that church. 

As an adult, I often questioned my spirituality simply because I had never spoken in tongues.  Most of my family and friends are Christians, but to my knowledge none of them have received this gift.  I have found this thread to be extremely enlightening and thought provoking.  It also helped to validate my belief that we do not all have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Spirit.  Thank you.

Faithin1

It is never a problem to provide some insight and wisdom from studies.  The Bible tells us that everyone may receive a different gift.  But there is one gift that we all must receive and that is the gift of the Holy Ghost dwelling in us.  After that it is all up to God in what He wills us to be blessed with.

Which baptism of the Holy Spirit?
the one that happens at the moment of Salvation or the one in which one recieves thier spiritual gifts??

Are they so really different that they must be listed as separate events.

Mar 1:8  I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Baptism with water was a cleansing ritual. It was to wash away the soil, the dirt of this world. It was an exterior ritual only though, it did not wash away the sins of the heart. Another one of those "shadows of things to come".

What is the "gift of the Holy Ghost". It is the washing away of the sins of the heart. Being made clean within. Being made whole. A house cleaning so the Holy Ghost may reside in a home clean of sin. The Holy Ghost resides within the heart of each and every believer that has accepted Christ as their Saviour.

Heb 6:4  ......  were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


The exact phrase, the gift of the Holy Ghost, is used two times in the Bible. The first time is on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38) and the second time is at the conversion of Cornelius (Acts 10:45). The Acts 10 passage further defines this gift as having "received the Holy Ghost" (Acts 10:47). In the next chapter, Peter defines the event as being an extension of the baptism of the Holy Ghost as received on the day of Pentecost (Acts 11:15-16). So we know that the gift of the Holy Ghost is directly connected to the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

This baptism was promised in all four gospels and once in the first chapter of Acts (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:4-5). For instance, in Mark 1:8, Christ said, "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost." In Acts 1:5, immediately before Christ ascended up into heaven, He told the disciples that this event would occur "not many days hence." That is, it was an event that would occur at a particular time and place (since they were to wait for it in Jerusalem).

This event was also called "the promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4). They were instructed not to depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise there. Therefore, in Acts 1:4, the gift of the Holy Ghost was something for which the disciples were to wait in Jerusalem because it would come not many days hence. In Peter's sermon to the Jews on the day of Pentecost (when the Holy Ghost came), he said, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear" (Acts 2:33). Here, he calls the baptism of the Holy Ghost by the name of "the promise of the Holy Ghost." And, he declares that they had received this promise from the Father. In other words, He had come and the gift had been given. They only needed to repent and be baptized in order to receive Him themselves. The baptism with the Holy Ghost is also called an enduing with power from on high (Luke 24:49). The baptism itself was an event that occurred on a particular day in a particular place.

Further in the book of Acts, the baptism was extended to include those groups that were not included in the pentecostal experience found in Acts 2. In Acts 8:14-17, we see the Samaritan believers being included. In Acts 10:44-48, the Gentiles are brought into the blessing. And finally, in Acts 19:1-7, the disciples of John the Baptist who did not know about the coming of Christ were brought into the baptism. Therefore, we can see that the baptism with the Holy Ghost was an event with several addendums to include all types of believers.

However, even though the baptism with the Holy Ghost as such was a historical event, that does not mean that it has no effect on us today. Two major changes in how God deals with believers were marked on the day of Pentecost. First, this event marked the coming of the Comforter promised by Jesus Christ (John 14:26; 15:27; 16:7; Acts 2:33). The Comforter, being the Holy Ghost, has now taken the place of Jesus Christ in the work of God on earth. Second, the time of Pentecost began the time when the Holy Ghost indwells every true believer of Christ. The Spirit of God, who was WITH believers, is now IN believers (John 14:16-17). Today, if someone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Romans 8:9). That is, he is not saved. 

The great blessing of this is that all who have trusted in Jesus Christ as Saviour and are born again also have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. We do not have to be baptized. We do not have to speak in tongues. We do not have to wait. When we get saved, we have received the Spirit. All who are saved have the gift of the Holy Ghost. Praise the Lord!

Now, this does not mean that there is not more to the spiritual life than what we have at salvation. It is only that we do need more of the Holy Ghost as is often taught. Actually, the problem with the spiritual life of most believers is not that they need more of the Holy Ghost; the problem is that the Holy Ghost needs more of them. This is much of the meaning of being filled with the Spirit. He is in all believers, but most believers have not allowed Him to fill their lives.

We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18), to walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16, 25), and to be led of the Spirit (Galatians 5:18). We are never told to seek to speak in tongues. Not all believers were to speak in tongues (1Corinthians 12:30).

Today, we need the working of the Holy Spirit in our lives. However, the baptism with the Holy Ghost is not for us. It was the event brought on by the departure of Christ from earth. It brought the Holy Ghost to the earth as God's special presence here. As an event, it began the universal indwelling of every believer by God's Holy Spirit. As Jesus said during His earthly ministry:

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.  39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Well, now Jesus IS glorified and the Holy Ghost IS given. We no longer wait to receive Him. And, if we allow Him to fill us, He will flow as rivers of living water out of our bellies. Thank the Lord for this precious gift.