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Greetings in the name of Christ Jesus. (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)

By nature, people gel into social cliques, regardless of their walk in life. For instance, people frequently complain about cliques within local churches.

(http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smilies/52a.gif) How do we, as believers led by the Spirit, overcome this problem?

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To answer your question Lucky, 1) I would welcome everyone to join in as we are all one in Christ we should treat each other with love and respect for one another 2) encourage others to join in and let them know that any input they want to add is not only welcome, but important and welcome. 3) Acknowledge each person in all conversations, 4) In the case of a Forum such as this one, b ecome involved in as many topics as possible and try to  give recognition to topics going on even if time does not allow for posting in each one,  make an attempt to join in when time permits.
After having done all the above I believe that it is up to everyone to do likewise, this would allow all to get involved, some people may not be interested in all the topics that are going on and that is fine, no one is expected to be.
Also keep an open mind every one has a bad day at one point or another, put 10 people in a room and you will have as many personalities, some people just seem to get along with everyone, others may be a little more reserved, don't expect anyone to live up to  your standards.
These are just some ways, and they may not work all the time, but just as some may have a favorite aunt or uncle or a favorite cousin or friend, it does not mean that others are not allowed to mingle with them.
 

Great advice airIam2worship. Thank you  :)

Hello LuckyStrike,

First, WELCOME!!


I'm looking forward to reading your posts and having fellowship with you.

Regarding your question about "cliques, I think that much would depend on how you define the word whether it would be good or bad. I would also say that "cliques" many times only exist in the mind of the person making the judgment. There are all kinds of cliques, good and bad, and most of the good types are simply the joining together of people who enjoy the same things. Example:  1) a Bible Study group;  2) a group of people recovering from the loss of a spouse. I know there are many examples that would be bad (i.e. rich).

I can honestly say that I'm not aware of any "bad" cliques in my church. It's a very small church, and most of the folks who go there are pretty plain. We do have a few very wealthy people who attend, but they fit right in with everyone else.

Most of the "bad clique" stories I've heard dealt with huge, fancy churches. I must also say that some of the stories involved folks who probably went to church for social status in the community or because it was good for their business. I've also heard some stories about rich people in some of those large churches who didn't have much to do with anyone out of their financial or social structure. I wouldn't care to belong to a clique like that, regardless of whether I had the financial or social status. In fact, I could care less about financial and social status.

In terms of fellowship, people who put JESUS first in their lives usually don't have any trouble in finding others who also love JESUS as the core of their lives. How much money someone has, how fancy their clothes are, and etc. doesn't make any difference if people are together because they love JESUS.

If you aren't happy in the church you attend because of cliques, I would simply tell you to pray about going to a different church. There are plenty of churches to choose from that are still open for the primary purpose of worshiping GOD and studying the Bible.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 118:24 NASB  This is the day which the LORD has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it.

Amen Brother Tom and Sister Maria.

Welcome to Christians Unite LuckyStrike.

Cliques can be used for the edification of the church as long as it is handled properly. As Brother Tom mentioned, the cliques that are good, that are based on talents or desire to learn more about our Lord and Saviour. My church has cliques also. There are those with the talent to sing or play a musical instrument, there are those with a talent to cook that organize and assist in meals for get-togethers, there are those that have the talent of child care and much more. Not only is a new person coming in with such a talent welcomed into one of these groups with open arms but they are encouraged to do so. Not all of us can be a hand, an arm or a foot but we all have a place that can be used for the benefit of others and the Lord.

To all, greetings in the name of Christ Jesus. Thanks for the welcome. (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smilies/tiphat.gif)


Most people define "clique" as a group of friends or associates, which are unified by certain similarities. But, where this basic definition ends, most variant, detailed definitions begin.

However, the essence of "the clique" is favoritism. Now, favoritism is favoritism, regardless of purpose or motivation. For instance, positive favoritism focuses on unifying similarities between specific people, while negative favoritism focuses on exclusionary differences between specific people. Yet, positive favoritism is a reflection of negative favoritism, for unifying similarities are the concurrent inverse of exclusionary differences. Hence, "good cliques" are no different from "bad cliques," no?

Favoritism is unBiblical. God does not show favoritism (Acts 10:34 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2010:34;&version=31;), Romans 2:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:11;&version=31;), Colossians 3:25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%203:25;&version=31;), see also Ephesians 6:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:9;&version=31;)), as reflected by Mosaic Law (James 2:8-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202:8-10;&version=31;)). Hence, as believers led by the Spirit (Galatians 5:25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:25;&version=31;)), we should not show favoritism (James 2:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202:1;&version=31;), 1 Timothy 5:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%205:21;&version=31;)).

What do you think?


Well, juxtapositioning personal experience with reality is tricky. In many cases, the nature of the situation depends on one's perspective, as illustrated by this article (http://www.gbod.org/evangelism/programs/offeringchrist/friendly.html). For instance, how can one detect cliques when one is part of those cliques?



I agree, yet disagree. Interdependent delegation helps material productivity, yet socially and spiritually divides by department. If you work with certain people more than others, then does this not create a preferential bond? What about maintaining balanced fellowship?

I agree that certain social groups have situational value. But how do you keep the situational value from producing favoritism? For instance, a group of widows may look down on wives, since wives have not experienced widowing.


I am not currently attending a local church. As of right now, I favor the "home church" or "home fellowship" school of thought.

This question comes to my mind: Why should we restrict our fellowship by redfining our fellowship as local institutional meetings?

luckeystrike, sometimes it's not the fact that certain people get together to mingle with others at different times before or after service, sometimes it's the person noticing these things that is looking for some type of problem.
People are not perfect, that is why we all need Jesus. I always felt that people should go to church to edify and be edified.
It's too bad some people will always look for an excuse as to why they don't like any particular church. It's either, so and so goes ther and i don't like that person, or I heard this or that about people at that church, or they have their own little cliques. My advise to those people is stay home because you will never find a place on earth where ther are other humans that are perfect,  none

LuckyStrike,

It appears that you are restricting your fellowship based on your views, and you might be overly sensitive to some problems that don't exist in the minds of others. Example: it really shouldn't bother anyone if a group of recent widows go out to eat after church, but you say that this bothers you. So, the "Why should we restrict our fellowship" question would be for you to answer since you have excluded yourselves from any local assembly. Many of the examples given are not worthy of any kind of argument. Regardless, you've placed yourself in the position of being completely in charge of exclusion and favoritism, so it's no longer an issue for you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 24:1-2 NASB  A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  For He has founded it upon the seas And established it upon the rivers.

I agree. But how do you determine when what situation is which? (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smilies/52a.gif)


I agree. The Apostles were not perfect (ref. Romans 7:14-25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207:14-25;&version=31;), Galatians 2:11-21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%202:11-21;&version=31;), etc.), but they are our inspirational example (1 Corinthians 11:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2011:1;&version=31;), Philippians 3:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%203:7;&version=31;), 2 Thessalonians 3:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%203:7;&version=31;)). In addition, Paul instructed Timothy to serve as an example for others (Titus 2:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus%202:7;&version=31;), 1 Timothy 4:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%204:12;&version=31;)), yet Timothy was not perfect.

How does the incapacity for perfection nullify reasonable expectations?


I agree (Romans 14:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2014:19;&version=31;)). This is an important two-way street (1 Corinthians 14:26-33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014:26-33;&version=31;), Colossians 3:15-16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%203:15-16;&version=31;), 1 Corinthians 12:7-31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2012:7-31;&version=31;)).

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Thusfar, we are in agreement, which is constructive. (http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)

Well then why do you feel that cliques are a problem ?

This is a "double-edged sword" argument. If I do not choose to attend church, then this is the case. However, you go to a specific local church, while expecting others to attend your church for fellowship with you, no? Is this behavior not restrictive as well?

I do online fellowship, street-side fellowship, and encourage home-to-home fellowship. This style of fellowship could incorporate different people from different local churches. Why should this offend you?


I never said this. You are putting words into my mouth.


This is a red herring. You are trying to "shift the spotlight." The subject is about cliques at local churches, not LuckyStrike's personal habits.


"Because you say so"?


This is a "double-edged sword" argument. Everyone controls their own fellowshipping habits.

Your logic in this discussion is missing totally. First you go one way and then you go the other. It looks very much like you arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Whatever floats your boat LuckyStrike, I'll not argue with you. I'll pray for you.

No. You are complicating the issue to avoid my point.

The issue is simple. According to human nature, people automatically form cliques, which are the product of social favoritism. In other words, people socialize according to personal preferences. For example, many people have complained about this behavior within many local churches. However, any social favoritism, under any context, is unBiblical.

Hence, I ask: How do we, as believers led by the Spirit, combat this problem, under any context?


Because we, by nature, give preferential treatment. Who, on this board, including myself, could deny that they prefer the company of certain individuals? Especially when we "walk in the flesh" in any "higher intensity"?

The biggest problem I have seen with this is that after the church service people tend to group with their friends they haven't seen all week and ignore visitors. I have been on both ends of this problem.

When my wife and I were looking for a church in Wisconsin years ago, we visited a large church that was recommended to us. The message was sound and the service great, but afterwards everyone broke up into their little groups. No one even spoke to us except the pastor at the door when we left. Needless to say we didn't go back.

On the other side, we find it hard to avoid being pulled into a group of acquaintances after the service, as we usually haven't seen them all week and they want to discuss some issue.

I would say this requires considerable effort and discernment. If you see new people or those you don't know yet in the service, you have to make an effort to bypass your friends and go speak to them first, then maybe introduce them to your group. You also need to show genuine interest in them as people, not potential church members. I have had people greet me cordially, then just rudely walk away when they find out I am just passing through and visiting.

You really have to be led by the Spirit and representing Jesus. Then you will notice those who need to be approached and follow God's leading.

If you are on the other end, I would just hang back and wait on the Lord. Maybe visit more than once, but if you continue to be unnoticed, you might want to look elsewhere.

I think the biggest problem is the word "clique."  It's French.  Now, how many good things have come out of France?   ;D :D

Ok.  Seriously.  I don't see this a quite as big of a problem as many do, though I do not doubt that it most certainly can be one.  Like Tom, we don't have that so much at our church.  But I don't see people with likeminds and pasttimes spending more time together than with others, so long as it's not at the exclusion of others, as a "clique."  For example, my wife and I hang out with several different "groups" of people.  Each group of friends hangs with other groups of friends.  Each goes out of their way to fellowship with others and, for the most part, with visitors.  I think that we can look to Jesus for just how this relationship works.  He had many people with whom He associated.  He had many people whomst He considered family.  He had many followers that He loved and taught.  He had 12 men He spent much of His time with; men who may have been considered His "clique" by some.  He had 3 of those twelve who were most likely His best friends.  He had 1 of those 3 that referred to Himself as "the disciple whom Jesus loved."  And yet, did He care more for John than He did Peter and James?  No.  Did He care more for Peter, James and John than He did the other 9?  No.  Did He care for the 12 more than He did the other 108 faithful followers?  No.  My point being, we can intrepret friendship sometimes to be cliques, because we've seen, sometimes, unkind people in real cliques.

The question I ask LuckyStrike, is, do you feel excluded?  I know that there are cliques in some churches, and that they can be quite introverted.  But I also know that one bad experience can cloud how we see everyone else.  If you're not currently the member of a local body of believers, you really need to be.   :)  I'll be praying for you!

His,

Kevin

Now that is just too funny.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 :D ;D :D

Don't get me started on the french...................... ;)

 ;D