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Hello everyone,
I keep wondering how the Antichrist is going to gain power given that the entire Christian world is on alert for him/her.

I wonder if the "Antichrist" is actually a state of being rather than an actual being. For example, Christ tells us in Luke 21:36 to "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
If we are anxious to usher in the end times by supporting war in the Middle East we are not following Christ's command to "love our enemies".  Christ commands us to seek peace. However, we are all so afraid of being caught off-guard by a peace-talking Antichrist that we are failing to follow Christ's message of peace. None of us will be "able to stand before the Son of Man" if we do not follow Christ's message of peace.
Therefore, we should not be SO concerned about being deceived by a person who wants peace that we are deceived by those that want war. By favoring those who want war over those that want peace we are becoming anti-Christ. Christ preached peace. If we do not seek peace we are "anti-Christ".
Bush calls himself a "war president". Do not abandon Christ just because you are afraid of being deceived by an "end-times" character. The anti-Christ is a necessary evil of the end times, but it is no excuse for you yourself to be anti-Christ. Do not be deceived by those that make war in the name of God. Christ did not command you to war in His name, He commanded you to love. Choose Christ, choose peace; don’t be anti-Christ and choose war.
“You have heard that it has been said, ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy.’ But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,” Jesus (Matthew 5: 43-44).
Peace.

Hi Sam, welcome to Christians Unite.

No one in their right mind wants war. Sometimes war is necessary.

You speak of loving others. Is it love to stand by and do nothing while others are being tortured and killed? Should we be like all those people that went pass the man on the road to Jerico or should we be like the Samaritan that helped him out?

 Jesus did not tell us not to be Military Soldiers nor did He tell us not to war. Yes, He did tell us to do all we can to maintain peace and to love our enemies. Sometimes that does require force. It is also possible to love our enemies at the same time we are stopping them from killing and torturing innocent people.

If we stand by and do nothing while others are being killed and tortured then we are no better than they are. Those who do nothing are in fact supporting those that are antichrist and in essence are also antichrist.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah(Messias/Mashiach), which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

Romans 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Ask our Lord for wisdom, Sam.

I see that you are new to the forum so................ Hello Sam, and welcome to Christians Unite forums. Right now, I am working on a piece on the anti-christ.

The anti-christ will come to power, after the Rapture. So those of us that are Christian, don't have to worry about the anti-christ. We will be gone, when he reigns, the world.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Isaiah 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good tidings, who publishes peace, who brings good tidings of good, who publishes salvation, who says to Zion, Your God reigns!

Hello Sam,

WELCOME!


I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite.

Sam, we should know that GOD has used military might to address evil throughout human history. Christians should not confuse Christian love with being a pacifist.

The Second Coming of CHRIST will be in GREAT WRATH against evil. It will be a time of horror and bloodshed like the world has never known.

GOD is completely in control of end of this age events, and no man or nation will be able to slow or hasten the fulfillment of Bible Prophecy by a second.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:10-13 NASB  He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Yes, welcome Sam!

No, satan is not a state of being my friend. There are scores of scriptures which relay specific attributes, and actions taken by satan, and the reason he was once the most beautiful and most perfect of all God's creation, only to rebel against God because he fell in love with himself, and imagined he was as powerful and equal to God Almighty.

Also Sam, President Bush never called himself a "war President" that label was bestowed upon him by his dissenters my friend, you know, democrats! ;)

Take care my friend.

John

Amen brothers,

satan is real, the antichrist will be a real person with many followers (also antichrists). Being a pacifixst will not stop this from happening, in fact pacifism will only hasten things along. Being lambs will only allow the wolf an easier and quicker kill.

"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind," George W. Bush Meet the Press Feb 7, 2004.

I'm certainly not a Democrat.  I stand on God's side not the Republican or Democratic side. War is always the last act of a desperate nation. We are a nation that has turned to its military as it's only strengthen, just like Rome in its final years.

We have "passed by" other nations and other people in their hour of need. What makes the Middle East more deserving of our rescue than the people of Africa or South America? Justifying war in the Middle East just because we believe that we are in the "end times" is an abandonment of Christ's principles. Dress it up all you want to justify it in your mind, but seeking peace is far harder. War causes more souls to be lost that might otherwise have been saved through a show of superior principles. Might doesn't make right. Christians should be leading the way on peace and not following the war machine. Is this the light we are trying to shine to the world: it is necessary to destroy you in order to save you? " This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine." It's just sad that the "light" is a message of war. No one will want our "light" because they will not see why it is better than what Muslims offer.

Over a decade ....  almost two ... (longer than that when it comes to the islamists) of using "other means" is using war as a first option?  War ends up being the only option when dealing with those that would have us killed or in complete subjugation to them. All other options had been expended with no results other than the determination of those that desire to destroy or subjugate us to continue in their objective.

You may not be a democrat but you are on a very similar platform with them, "give in to the enemy and let them rule over us".

Sam I'd like to welcom you to CU.
Sam Please do not be deceived satan is real, he is against God in every posibble way, many people make the mistake of thinking that satan is not real, they are being misled by satan himself.
As for war, even from the book of Genesis there have been wars, some of these wars were even backed by angels helping God's people. Today there are many people and nations that are against God and good. These are terrorists and sadists. I myself am niether Democrat not Republican, I do not associate with one party or the other, I do vote for the man that has morals and in this case GW is a man of faith. Sometimes war is necessary and it must be fought. If Americans do not stand up for freedom where would America be today? The Bible forewarns us of wars and rumors of war, there is nothing that anyone can do to change the outcome or to prevent the things that are already written. God is the Author and Finisher, He knows the end from the begining, these things must come to pass. We cannot judge GW for the actions he has taken, I understand that this is a very controversial topic and there are just as many people against Bush as there are for him. It doesn't matter who the president was at the time this war began people will always have their own opinions, but what makes one man's opinion right and another's wrong? We are not in control of the world situation as it is today, God is in control. Christians have been made aware of this in the Bible. Man cannot solve the world's problems, only God can. The end is not going to come in a peaceable manner, satan is doing all he can to take as many people as he can with him, he knows he's already lost, now he is desperate, and will go through any means he can to turn people against God and also each other.

  Mt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
(KJV)

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
 2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
 2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

As Christians we must not sit back and just look at who we can critize or what should be done differently, Jesus gave us 2 commandments 'love thy neighbor as thyself' and 'preach the gospel of the good news', aside from these two things, the only other thing we can do is pray, pray for our nation, for our president, and for the lost.

 Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(KJV)

Hello Sam,

We can agree to disagree, and that's no problem at all. Hitler was ignored by the world too long, and the result was 60 million people dying. In terms of trying to provide humanitarian assistance to the hungry, the sick, and people with other needs, the effort was there but corrupt leaders didn't get the aid to the people who needed it in many cases.

Regardless of whether this is the end times of not, people like Hitler must still be stopped. The same would be true for terrorists. I do understand and respect your opinion, and we can disagree with no problem at all.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:28 NASB  And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

I forget, how long did Job wait until he retaliated? What was the final straw that pushed him to avenge the death of his workers and family? It is frightening to me that Christian's hate pacifists, especially since it was Christ that tried to teach us how to be one. An eye for an eye was replace with turn the other cheek for a reason and most modern day Christians don't get why.

When God allowed Satan to test Job in the Old Testament, the “Sabeans” and the “Chaldeans” (some translations call them “Raiders”) came and killed his workforce and stole all his livestock leaving him with no way to earn a living. Job did not call on the militia to hunt down and kill these “raiders”. He did not build a memorial at the site of the massacre and hold press conferences demanding revenge and inciting his neighbors to war upon “the raiders”. He did not use the loss of all of his worldly possessions as an excuse to kill. Job simply praised God. He “turned the other cheek”. He took the higher ground and to this day Job is known for his “patience”. God used Job as an example to show Satan that people who follow Him do not get upset and kill in His name; rather they trust Him to handle things.

The Christian leadership of today seems to have no sense of the worth of seeking the “higher ground”, thus setting an example at which the rest of the world can marvel as we still do at Job. I think most people, “Christians” included, do not understand the concept behind turning the other cheek. Do not put yourself in the shoes of the person who has been struck on the cheek to understand this concept. Put yourself in the shoes of the person doing the striking. If you hit or slap someone in anger across the face what reaction are you preparing for after you strike? You are preparing to defend yourself from a return blow. How would you feel if you saw this person, recovering from your hit, slowly turn, look you in the eye and then turn the un-struck side of his face toward you, completely defenseless? Well, sure in the capitalistic mindset of kill-or-be-killed, this is a “golden opportunity” and the only dilemma is whether or not you can deliver a knockout blow. However, that is not what Christ taught.

Can you not see how turning the other cheek made the person you struck a better person than you? When you do not give your enemy anything to push against there ceases to be a reason for the enemy to push. When your enemy is exposed on lower moral ground than you, he will want to rise up to your level of morality. Suddenly you are talking out your differences instead of fighting endless battles with no winner which is Christ’s whole point.

Christ says that we cannot just love those who love us already. He says there’s no point to that, Matthew 5: 46-48: “For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do that? And if you salute only your brethren (loved ones), what do you more than others? Even the tax collectors do so. Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

When the Saudi’s brought terror to the United States on September 11, 2001, did we have to retaliate? Did the Christian Right look for lessons that God might be sending or did they just want revenge? Did any Christian have faith in God like Job or did the Christians believe we had to strike back, harder than we had been hit? If Christ told us to turn the other cheek are we sinning by not doing so and letting Him handle the situation? A principle is a principle is a principle. Core values are not core values if they change depending on the circumstance.

We need to learn Christ’s values and use them so that we may be “a light unto the world”. Make the world marvel at us the way we do at Job. Let our enemies look at us and say, “Oh that is what it means to be a ‘Christian’! Wow, they are really good people.” We are not living for Christ by waging and eye-for-an-eye battle with Muslims. Neither can we bring others to Christ this way. We cannot, as Christians or civilized people, hold to the belief that we should fight terrorism with terrorism, Christ said, “You have heard that it has been said, ‘An eye for and eye, and a tooth for a tooth’: But I say unto you…whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also” Matt 5:38. A “blood and guts Christian” is no example of Christ.

If we fail to recognize that our leaders are not being Christ-like in their actions we fail to realize that they are not really Christians and therefore should not be followed. Just as the Germans followed Hitler based upon national pride we too can follow people who call themselves “Christian” but put country ahead of God. This is why Christians should concern themselves with why we are failing to live in peace rather than with how close we are to the rapture. We cannot give up on peace just because we believe we are living in the end times. We must continue to act the way Christ instructed us or we will not be able to stand before Him on judgment day.

There is no one here that has showed any animosity towards you. Remember who it was you that came on here and started calling people names because they were not a pacifist and in your very first post.





I think that you have overstated the position that we stand on here. Personally I would never take the first hit as you describe it. Capitialism has nothing to do with it. I am far from being a capitalist. Nor am I socialist or communistic (which by the way one is not far from the other). However I am not going to stand idly by while I see a big bully with no concept of love continually harming someone else that is completely helpless either.

Those that stand on pacifism seem to forget the other teachings in the New Testament. When we look at them all we see a different picture besides just pacifism.


We are showed in several places in the New Testament where God considers a soldier to be honorable. In Acts 10 we see the mention of "Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band". A centurion was a Roman Soldier. We see praise being given to him:

Act 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

And therein an angel speaking to him:

Act 10:3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
Act 10:4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Act 10:5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
Act 10:6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
Act 10:7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
Act 10:8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.


No where in this story was Cornelius told to stop being a soldier or that what he did was not honorable.


We also see Jesus himself praising a centurion for his great faith:

Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Mat 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.


Although you may never see these verses for what they are nor be able to understand that it is possible for a soldier to do their job and still love their enemy I ascertain that it is completely possible and yet sometimes it is still necessary for them to kill.

I hold no animosity toward those that refuse to pick up a weapon for self defense or for the defense of another. I have known several that were very brave individuals that did not allow such to sway them from helping others nor do I go around calling them antichrist. The people that I do have a problem with are those that hide behind such teachings that refuse to help anyone. Such individuals  will instead hide in a closet concerned only for their own safety when the wolf is at their door expecting someone else to care for them.

Jesus was led as a lamb to the slaughter. He did not do this to teach us to be pacifists. He had a very large army at His beck and call that He could have called to His defense at any time. If He had done so then you and I would not be able to enjoy eternity with Him. One day He will return with that army and there will be much bloodshed and there will be great wrath laid out on those that have not accepted Him as Lord and Saviour.


Ecc 3:1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:


Ecc 3:8  ........   a time of war, and a time of peace.

Sam W quote..

I think most Christians do not understand the message that Jesus was relaying when He spoke of turning the other cheek.

How many cheeks do you have Sam?
The message is that we must not over react in situations where we are attacked either verbally or physically. We can allow ourselves to be struck, but there is also a limit to the abuse we have to take.
Jesus wasn't telling us to allow our enemies to crush us, Jesus was telling us to be fair, and make our best attempt at a peaceful resolution. Jesus gives the example of turning the other cheek, as an example of a limit of the abuse we have to take.

Tell me something Sam my brother, if an intruder broke into your home, and began savagly beating on your wife or children, what would you do? Turn the other cheek? I doubt it.
We must use our God given common sence when we take these verses to heart Sam.

Ecc 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 

Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 

Ecc 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 

Ecc 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. 

In Matthew 5:38-41 , Jesus made three radical statements. First, He said that a person should turn the other cheek when someone strikes him. Second, He declared that His followers should give those who sue them more than they are asking. Third, He said that a person conscripted by a Roman officer to carry a load for 1 mile should offer to go 2 miles. Does this mean that we should never resist when somebody attacks us? Should we let everyone take advantage of us?

This can't be what Jesus meant. After all, Jesus denounced the Pharisees who attacked Him ( Matthew 23 ), and objected when He was struck by one of the officers of the high priest ( John 18:22-23 ). Further, He advised His disciples to take measures to defend themselves ( Matthew 10:16; Luke 22:36-38 ). He also declared that they shouldn't worry beforehand about how they should respond to their enemies' charges, because He would give them the right words to say so that their adversaries wouldn't be able "to contradict or resist" them ( Luke 21:14-15 )

Similarly, the apostle Paul aggressively defended himself against his enemies, asserting his rights as a Roman citizen, and making it clear to his attackers that there could be consequences if he were unlawfully harmed ( Acts 23:1-3; 25:14-27 ).

What Jesus asks of His followers is not passivity, but surrender of the right to personal revenge. His three radical examples make His point about the attitude we should have toward those who wrong us. Rather than getting even, we should be willing to go to the opposite extreme. We need to be ready to humble ourselves for the kingdom of God. We need to understand that vengeance isn't ours, but the Lord's ( Romans 12:19 ).

The natural human tendency has been to seek the emotional satisfaction of revenge for perceived injury ( Genesis 4:8 ). Our instinctive response to any kind of injury is hatred and desire for vengeance. This is why Jesus made it so clear in His Sermon on the Mount that not only outward murder but also inward hatred is subject to God's judgment ( Matthew 5:22-23 ).

The Old Testament law placed limitations on vengeance ( Exodus 21:23-25 ). Although, the "eye for an eye" provision of the Mosaic law has often been misunderstood as requiring vengeance, its actual purpose was to place limitations on it. The law prescribed that punishment must fit the crime. The law wouldn't permit taking a life in revenge for an insult or a minor injury. If an eye were put out, only an eye could be taken; if a tooth, only a tooth.

Jesus went much further than the law, making it clear that He wasn't merely calling for more limitations on vengeance. In Matthew 5:38-48 , He implied that we must give up personal vengeance altogether. But as illustrated above by both Jesus and Paul, there is a difference between confronting evil and seeking personal revenge. It is possible to confront evil with a desire for the redemption of its perpetrator. We are called to love a sinner while confronting his sin, but when we seek vengeance we are motivated by hatred -- a desire to make someone suffer for what they have done to us.

If Matthew 5:38-48 were taken literally at all times, we would have to let everyone take advantage of us. Turning the other cheek would become an encouragement for evil. This isn't what Jesus had in mind. His vivid examples illustrate His disciples' need to give up any sense of entitlement to personal revenge, to be purged of the motivation of personal vengeance. By asking them to turn the other cheek, Jesus meant that His disciples should be motivated by love and a desire for the redemption and forgiveness of offenders -- even when opposing their actions.

John

Sam my friend, it does seem like you have a somewhat destorted view on the response of the U.S. toward Islamists terrorism.
Bush did not rush in and start a war for no reason. As a matter of fact, the U.S. had been under a constant birrage from Islamists terrorists for many years before the Sept 9-11 incident. That was the final straw Sam, that was a situation where if Bush didn't go to war with those terrorists, the U.S. would have been pegged as an easy target.

As far as Iraq goes, Saddam laughed in the face of the U.N security council for twelve long years before they were attacked Sam. That is hardly the actions of a trigger happy West going after the world for no reason, as you like to portray.

Here is a brief summary of how long these terrorists had a free reign before anyone did anything meaningfull about it.

 Islamists of all stripes have a virulent attitude toward non-Muslims and have a decades-long history of fighting with British and French colonial rulers, as well as with such non-Muslim governments as those of India, Israel, and the Philippines. They also have had long and bloody battles against Muslim governments that reject the Islamist program: in Egypt, Pakistan, Syria, Tunisia, and Turkey, for instance—and, most spectacularly, in Algeria, where 100,000 persons so far are estimated to have lost their lives in a decade of fighting.

Islamist violence is a global phenomenon. During the first week of April, for example, I counted up the following incidents, relying only on news agency stories, which are hardly exhaustive: deaths due to violent Islamist action occurred in Algeria (42 victims), Kashmir (17), the southern Philippines (3), Bangladesh (2), and the West Bank (1); assorted violence broke out in many other countries, including Afghanistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Sudan; courts handed down judgments against radical Muslims in France, Germany, Italy, Jordan, Turkey, the United States, and Yemen. Islamists are well organized: fully 11 of the 29 groups that the State Department calls "foreign terrorist organizations" are Islamist, as are 14 out of 21 groups outlawed by Britain's Home Office.

Starting in 1979, Islamists have felt confident enough to extend their fight against the West. The new militant Islamic government of Iran assaulted the U.S. embassy in Tehran at the end of that year and held nearly 60 Americans captive for 444 days. Eight American soldiers (the first casualties in this war) died in the failed U.S. rescue attempt in 1980. Violence against Americans began in earnest in 1983 with an attack on the U.S. embassy in Lebanon, killing 63. Then followed a long sequence of assaults on Americans in embassies, ships, planes, barracks, schools, and elsewhere.

Islamists have also committed at least eight lethal attacks on the soil of the United States prior to September 11, 2001: the July 1980 murder of an Iranian dissident in the Washington area; the January 1990 murder of an Egyptian Islamic freethinker in Tucson; the November 1990 assassination of Rabbi Meir Kahane in New York; the January 1993 assault on CIA personnel, killing two, outside the agency's Langley, Virginia, headquarters; the February 1993 World Trade Center bombing, killing six; the March 1994 shooting attack on a van full of Orthodox Jewish boys driving over the Brooklyn Bridge, killing one; the February 1997 murder of a Danish tourist at the top of the Empire State Building; and the deliberate October 1999 crash of an EgyptAir flight by the Egyptian pilot into the Atlantic near New York City, killing 217. All but one of these murders took place near or in New York City or Washington, D.C. This partial list doesn't include a number of fearsome near misses, including the "day of terror" planned for June 1993 that would have culminated with the simultaneous bombing of the United Nations and the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels, and a thwarted plot to disrupt Seattle's millennial celebrations.

In short, the massacre of upward of 6,000 Americans in September 2001 was not the start of something new but the intensification of an Islamist campaign of violence against the U.S. that has been raging for more than two decades.

These animals have to be stopped Sam. As you can see, they have been attacking the U.S. for decades before any real action was taken against them. That is far and above turning the other cheek don't you think?

John

Something that I want you to think about in regards to this statement. You indicate that we should do nothing and have complete faith in God to take care of us. In regards to this I want to refer to the below scriptures.

Mat 6:25  Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mat 6:26  Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Do you or someone in your household go out and work for a living or do you sit at home doing nothing, expecting God to provide everything for you? Or do you say "that is different, it isn't the same thing, we have to work to take care of ourselves"?

I’ve been taught that ‘turn the other cheek’ has to do with insults.  In culture at that time in history, a slap was the greatest insult a man could dish out.  I believe Jesus was teaching us to ignore insults (as opposed to allowing actual physical abuse). 

Hello Sam,

I think that it's fine for you to be a pacifist - that's no problem at all, even though you have your Biblical references terribly confused. Regardless, it's still fine for you to be a pacifist - others will take up the duty of protecting you and your family. However, pacifists don't call names, nor do they even hint at calling names, so you will need to stop doing that. You really aren't unique, as many have made the same mistakes with the Holy Bible that you are making. You are grossly misusing portions of Scripture that deal with disputes, insults, civil affairs, payments of debts, violation of bargains and/or contracts, and all sorts of other problems that had nothing to do with defending life and family.

Sam, it's still just fine for you to be a pacifist, but pacifists don't stir trouble, nor do they call people names who disagree with them. The most mighty warriors in human history were Christians, and that includes the present. A large percentage and maybe a majority of our Armed Forces are Christians. A fairly large percentage of police officers are Christians, even the vast majority in many police departments. They don't have a battle or problem with conscience or the Holy Bible at all, but it's fine for you to if you wish. King David, a man after God's own heart, was a mighty warrior, and the same is true for God's children in all ages. You simply need to pay your respects and stay out of their business. You also need to give thanks that men and women of sufficient courage have paid for every freedom you enjoy, including the freedom to worship. Last and greatest, the Second Coming of Christ will be HIM with a terrible swift sword, not a plowshare.

When you pray for God to watch over your family, the answer will probably be men and women of sufficient courage to do the job whether you wish to do the job or not.  AND, many of those men and women will be Christians. Just give thanks, and don't call them names. Sam, it appears that you are spending considerable time with an agenda to name call and criticize those who place their very lives on the line for the good and protection of others. I completely understand your errors with the Holy Bible, and I still respect your opinion and your right to be a pacifist. BUT, I do not respect your criticism and name calling of those who protect you and preserve your freedoms. Biblically, your time would be better spent in thanks and praying for those who put their lives on the line for others.

Sam, it's quite possible that the time will come where you will have a choice of watching your family die or using the backbone that God gave you to defend them. The choice to defend them will NOT be against Biblical teaching, but that decision will be completely up to you. Many of the Christians on this forum did put their lives on the line as a career, and it will NOT be up to you to call them names or disrespect them.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 23:4 NASB  Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Since my last post I have been reading-up on Islam and the Koran.  I feel I need to recant what I said. I was ignorant. I assume you must all know what I did not: Muslims will kill us all. Period. We must fight them, even fight them first, or there will be none of us left to defeat them. Sure, the next life will sort things out, but we have children that do not deserve to be slaughtered.
I'm going to be away for awhile, praying.  Sorry for any offense I may have given. I meant none.

It's a real Christian's heart that is willing to admit when we are wrong, and apologize like you did Sam.
Please don't feel like you have to leave for any length of time, afterall, this did turn into a positive learning experience for you in the least right?

Some of us here, myself included, have posted things with a bit of an aggressive flavor. It's the people who continue to do this that we worry about Sam, you have shown that you are not one of those. We all make mistakes, and as long as we try our very best to be reasonable, and in line with the Bible, we will do just fine.

I have admitted when I was wrong here a few times, and I have had to apologize a few times as well. The main thing is that I always have my heart tuned into King Jesus, and He guides me to the truth, and He humbles me when I need it.

Looking forward to your next post Sam.

John

Sam, if you want more reading, you can find it right here. Peaceful religion isn't spelled Islam (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=8327.0)

I myself have been wrong, just ask BRNZ.

Hi Sam,

I agree with the others. No need to leave for any length of time. We are all capable of making mistakes and it does take a strong person to admit when they have been wrong.

Yes, our children are in danger. When we face such evil as we do in this world we must do what we can to stand up against it. As for being the first to fight them that decision is not here as they have already made the first move on that a very long time ago. The first thing that we must do is as you just said we must turn to prayer about this matter.