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We had a lesson today and my teacher said that God did not put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden. I would like to get your views on this matter. We had a man in our class who said the tree was a metaphor. I don't believe it to be a metaphor but I am kind of confused too.  ???
catty

Hi catty,

The verses that you are talking about

Gen 2:16  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Show that it is not a metaphor and that God indeed placed it in the Garden of Eden. As you can plainly see Adam was told that he could eat of all the other trees except the one of the Knowledge of good and evil. If it were a metaphor it would not have mentioned Adam eating of the other trees.

Many people attempt to say that most of the Bible is made up of metaphors in order to be able to "adjust" the Bible to "fit" their beliefs. This is especially true of Theistic Evolutionists. It is the "Let's change the meaning of things so it fits my beliefs" movement that is coming into the world today instead of taking God's word for being God's word.

When God uses metaphors or parables in the Bible He makes it clear that this is what they are.

That is mans first sin.........

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was the tree in the middle of the Garden of Eden from which God forbade Adam and Eve to eat. The other tree in the middle of the garden was the Tree of Life. Nothing is said in Genesis about whether or not they were permitted to eat from the tree of life, but since the Bible says "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.", we can guess that they were probably allowed to eat from the tree of life. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the tree, after being tempted by a serpent, they became knowledgeable of their sin, and were punished by God by being banished from the garden and forced to survive through agriculture "by the sweat of [their] brow". Being banished from Eden meant they would lose access to the tree of life and therefore were condemned to die.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us [the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit], to know [how to distinguish between] good and evil and blessing and calamity; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever--

According  legend, the Tree of Knowledge was the source of wood for the True Cross. Later Christian groups have connected the tree to those of other religions, identifying the stories in other faiths as corruptions. (This this for what it is worth. I don't really agree with legends that much.)

My own opinion is it is not, a metaphor and that God placed it in the Garden of Eden.

First all sorry I didn't add the verses to my post. Second of all thank you for your replies. We have all read and assumed that God put the tree in the garden. My teacher was saying that he didn't think that God put the tree there because God doe not tempt man. He said that Satan had put it there and then talked Eve into eating the fruit. This what I am having trouble with. Satan is mocker of God, he tries to deceive people into believing that what they are doing is good and that they are OK, which ultimately distroys the person. God put the tree there because he made man with free will or he gave man free will after Adam sinned.

No need to apologize sister. God put the tree there not Satan.

Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Many say that God does not tempt man. However this is not true:

Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.


God tried Job ....

Job 23:10  But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.


God tried David:

Psa 17:3  Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast visited me in the night; thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing; I am purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.


Psa 66:10  For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.


Any temptation that God may place before us He also places a way for us to escape it:

1Co 10:13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hello Catty,

I just wanted to add almost 2 cents worth: God also created woman.

In fact, we know that God created everything, and there was a good intention for everything. If something bad is done, it is the fault of man in making the wrong choice. Just one more example for thought, and I think it will cause a lot of thought:

All of the best medications are from God's Pharmacy (nature). Many of the medications have been used for centuries and don't require sophisticated lab equipment to extract or use them. There are other things from nature that man uses for tools, hunting, and many other things that are quite beneficial to man. The examples are really too numerous to list, but I'll mention just a few:

1 - Marijuana - excellent hemp rope or an abused street drug.
2 - Cocaine, heroin, and numerous barbiturates and opiates have a large number of medical applications that are quite legitimate, OR they can be abused as street drugs.

There is one very serious point that I'd like to make:  We should never hint that we are blaming God for the bad choices of man. Lets take one more very simple example: a rock can be used in the construction of shelter, or it can be used to bash someone's head in to commit murder.

I don't know - maybe this is 3 cents worth.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Timothy 6:12 NASB  Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Amen brother, I would say that is worth much more than 3 cents.

This is a part of what people today call free will. We have the choice to do what is right or we can do what is wrong.

Let me say this first I still believe that God put the tree there, but there have been some things brought that also makes sense to me as to why God made not have put the tree in the Garden. With that said let me list a few of things that have said to me.
God tests us through trials. God does not tempt us, test yes, tempt no. I have to agree with this. I think we need to be careful here on this, because this very well could be a sin. Everythng God does makes a full circle, so the tree is not here in the end so it was not meant to be there in the beginning. This comment I say ok maybe this is true, the jury is still out on this one. And the last thing that was brought up was the parable of the tares and the wheat. Ok tares look like wheat but when harvest time comes the farmer knows what is wheat and what is tares. So the fruit on the tree looked good but is what not intended to be eaten. Could it be that Satan was copying God. Everything that is of God is good and Satan tries to decieve us with what looks like God's but if we look hard enough we can see the evil that was intended.
Rememeber I still believe that God put the tree there, I am just trying to sort things out. I need to throw out all that is not the thruth and embrace the truth. Have we been wrong all this time to think that God put the tree there. I know that this doesn't save anyone or will it send someone to hell, but it has brought questions to mind.
catty 

When we have questions such as these we must rely on what the Bible tells us. We know for a fact that God did put the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the Garden because the Bible tells us this as a fact.

We also know that God may test a person because the Bible tells us that He tempted many people as I have showed earlier. Remember here also that the word "tempt" also means "try". When God tempted Abraham, it was in tempting Abraham to disobey Him. We also know that Satan tempts people. The difference between the two is that God places a way for us to avoid that temptation as He did for Abraham. When Abraham showed he was going to obey God told him to stay his hand and provided a ram in the place of his son. Yes God knew the outcome of this beforehand but He wanted Abraham and us to see this. God does this to show us that He is merciful, to show us that we need Him, that without Him we could not and would not succeed, to help us grow stronger in Him.

Have you heard the saying be careful what you pray for? The person that asked in prayer for the Lord to teach them patience? Humans learn strength through experience. The more we experience the stronger we become. Compare the child that was raised up completely protected from all hardships, everything given to them on a 'silver platter', everything done for them to the child that grew up with nothing, going through many hardships, having to work hard for what little they got. As adults, if hard times come on these two, which one is going to be the best prepared to handle these hardships the best?

When Satan tempts us he does not provide us a way to escape the temptation as Satan wants us to fail. He is relentless in putting temptations in our way. It is God that provides the way for us to escape the temptations that Satan puts before us.

Hello Catty,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Does your teacher hold to the serpent seed doctrine of a man by the last name Shepherd? It is the false teaching that the fruit Eve ate was not really fruit but an immoral relationship Eve had with Satan which produced Cain.

Pilgrim

Satan was in the garden of Eden? I find nothing in the Old Testament claiming that.

You might be looking in the wrong place, look in Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 28:1-19 1 THE WORD of the Lord came again to me, saying,  2 Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord God: Because your heart is lifted up and you have said and thought, I am a god, I sit in the seat of the gods, in the heart of the seas; yet you are only man [weak, feeble, made of earth] and not God, though you imagine yourself to be almost more than mortal with your mind as the mind of God;  3 Indeed, you are [imagining yourself] wiser than Daniel; there is no secret [you think] that is hidden from you;   4 With your own wisdom and with your own understanding you have gotten you riches and power and have brought gold and silver into your treasuries;  5 By your great wisdom and by your traffic you have increased your riches and power, and your heart is proud and lifted up because of your wealth;  6 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Because you have imagined your mind as the mind of God [having thoughts and purposes suitable only to God Himself],  7 Behold therefore, I am bringing strangers upon you, the most terrible of the nations, and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom [O Tyre], and they shall defile your splendor.   8 They shall bring you down to the pit [of destruction] and you shall die the [many] deaths of all the Tyrians that are slain in the heart of the seas.   9 Will you still say, I am a god, before him who slays you? But you are only a man [made of earth] and no god in the hand of him who wounds and profanes you.  10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers, for I have spoken it, says the Lord God.  11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me, saying,   12 Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: You are the full measure and pattern of exactness [giving the finishing touch to all that constitutes completeness], full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.  13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the carnelian, topaz, jasper, chrysolite, beryl, onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and your settings and your sockets and engravings were wrought in gold. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].  15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you. 16 Through the abundance of your commerce you were filled with lawlessness and violence, and you sinned; therefore I cast you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire.  17 Your heart was proud and lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I lay you before kings, that they might gaze at you.  18 You have profaned your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities and the enormity of your guilt, by the unrighteousness of your trade. Therefore I have brought forth a fire from your midst; it has consumed you, and I have reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who looked at you.  19 All who know you among the people are astonished and appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and shall never return to being.

I see that you are not knowledge in the Bible.

Gen 3:13  And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Intresting Thread and very thought provoking.

However, i have to go along with what Pastor Roger said and that is, that we need to believe the word of God. What i have found over the years, whether it be by accident or on purpose, is that people take scripture, scripture that can be as clear as the nose on your face, and then try and make it mean something else or read something else into it. So often, i use to read a piece of scripture that seemed so straight forward and i thought to myself, "there must be more meaning to it than this or that". But i think i've learnt recently that what the word says is what it means and i have hopefully stopped trying to read other things into it. Of course, some parts of scripture, which are harder to grasp, i still wrestle with  :)

I agree with Pr Roger.  It is a TREE and Eve plucked fruit from it.  Nothing more,  nothing less.  It is a matter of free will.  God has given man choice and freedom to choose.
To see why God put the tree there in the first place, imagine if He did not!  Then it would mean that God does everything and man has nothing to do.  We would all be robots.  Nothing in our hands, loving would be without choice, there would not have been emotions in the first place.  I am not saying we are better off now ;)  but it was the will of God that He grant us this freedom of choice.

As we all know we abused the freedom He gave us.  Yet He paid the price for it! God is good and His grace endureth forever! ;D

Of course God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden, just as He put Satan in the garden.

Now was there "magic " in the tree? Did the fruit have some mystical power?

I am not too sure if it was the fruit itself .

God had a covenant with Adam, there was only one law. Do not eat of that tree.

Up to the point of disobeying the Law given by God, Adam and Eve were innocent . They did not know what sin was (transgression of the law-- Romans) . But once they did transgress the law they did know what sin was ( their eyes were open), they lost the innocence they had. They now understood that there was good and their was evil, they now had a conscience . That is why they ran and hid their nakedness.


God put the tree in the garden, God put Satan in the Garden . God was not surprised at the fall, He had already made provision for it.

 

Calsgal, Hi I would first like to welcome you to CU, I am happy you decided to join us.

to answer your question was there 'magic' in the tree or mystical power? or the fruit.

There was no magic in anything that God created.

It was a LAW, God's law was for Adam and Eve not to eat of that particular tree, they broke that law. Because God is Omniscient He knew they had broken His law and the result of that breaking of God's command we are all too familiar with.

God does not contradict Himself in anyway. He condemns srcery and workers of magic.

God is Omnipotent, He does not need to work magic on anything.


I agree with you on this  :)

Hi Calsgal,

Again welcome to Christians Unite. I am gald to see you here.

There were two special trees in the Garde of Eden. Personally I would not call either of the mystical or magical. I do know that each had their special abilities. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil gave Adam and Eve the ability to know the difference between good and evil. The other tree was the Tree of Life which had the ability to maintain life forever. We know that the Tree of Life is now in heaven as we are told in the book of Revelations and those that have accepted Jesus as their Saviour will be able to partake of it.

Thanks, there was an old saying that came from the puritans I think

It went some like 

Before the fall, man was free to sin or not sin ( man was innocent)

After the fall man could only choose sin

After man is saved he can choose to sin or not sin

In glory man will not be able to sin


Luther called the result of the  fall " the bondage of the will" .

In Adam all of us fell..

I have had a fascination with the images the scriptures paint for us .

This scripture spoke to me when I was a fairly new Christian



Eze 47:3   And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters [were] to the ankles.


Eze 47:4   Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters [were] to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters [were] to the loins.


Eze 47:5   Afterward he measured a thousand; [and it was] a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.


Eze 47:6   And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen [this]? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.


Eze 47:7   Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river [were] very many trees on the one side and on the other.


Eze 47:8   Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: [which being] brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.


Eze 47:9   And it shall come to pass, [that] every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.


Eze 47:10   And it shall come to pass, [that] the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a [place] to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

Eze 47:12   And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.


Eze 47:13   Thus saith the Lord GOD; This [shall be] the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph [shall have two] portions.

My heart saw this flowing stream as the grace of God that came to my ankles then my knees and then engulfed me .


We see the same image in Revelations

Rev 22:1   And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.


Rev 22:2   In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.


Rev 22:3   And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:


Rev 22:4   And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.


Rev 22:5   And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Amen and amen