I John 1:9 The Baptist Mass

[AVBunyan]

Do I believe a saint has to confess their sins in order to be forgiven?  Double NO!
Do I believe a saint has to confess their sins?  No

Now, why do I believe the above?
First – if I read my Bible right Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 says I am already forgiven.  When Christ died for my sins 2000 years ago He died for them all – the ones I, as a believer, did yesterday and the ones I am going to do later on.  If God forgave me at Calvary for my sins then I am forgiven.  My forgiveness is based upon Christ’s finished work at Calvary – not my confessing them.  

Let’s go further.  Let’s say I go in and talk mean to my wife.  This is sin.  I immediately sit down and read Eph. 1:7 – it says I am forgiven.  I go and get drunk (God forbid!) – this is sin.  I sit down and read col. 1:14 – it says I am forgiven.  You see I am forgiven – it is as though I never sinned or ever will in God’s eyes – read Ephesians 1.  My standing before God is sinless perfection.  Yes, I sin all day long because of this vile nature I still have in me but I am forgiven already based upon Calvary!

Now, here comes the saints’ “out”.  I John 1:9.  This is the main verse everyone uses to say we have to confess our sins. I call this verse the “Baptist mass” for many have abused this verse into thinking that all they have to do after they sin is to confess and all is done.
This has led to an abuse of the grace we have and given some a license to sin.  Shameful!

I John 1:9 is not for sinning and then asking God to forgive you so you can go and sin again.  I John 1:9 is not a license to sin and then be able to a "quick forgivness".

1 John 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Look real close if you are going to use this verse as your ammo.  Take it as it stand with no application or going to any worthless ancient word studies.
 
Here your forgiveness is based upon your confession. This forgiveness is conditional.  If you confess you get forgiveness – if you don’t – no forgiveness.  I’m not talking about your “fellowship” with the Father (as some says it “really” means) – I’m talking about forgiveness.

As mentioned above my forgiveness is in Jesus Christ – not by me asking forgiveness.  If you take this verse at face value for TODAY then you would be confessing your sins at an alarming rate.  And what if you forgot to confess one – according to the verse it means you are not forgiven and I’d like to see you get into heaven with any sins on you.  You see how if you take this verse here as it stand your new full time job as saint would be confessing all day long for we sin all day long!!!  You ought to get down on your knees right now and thank the Lord for grace!

Summary – the saint does not have to confess their sins in order to have those sins forgiven – the saint is already forgiven – was forgiven a long time ago.  
Does someone have to confess his or her sins in order to get forgiveness?  You bet – not sure who they are but I would be willing to bet that it has something to do with Israel and the tribulation period but I know one thing it contradicts Pauline doctrine of Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 so I know it doesn’t doctrinally apply to the blood-bought saint today.  Never said I understood it all - I just said it wasn’t for me today and I am glad!!!

Now – application  - Do I believe it is good to confess – yes.  It’s not a bad idea to cleanse the conscience before the Lord.  This could remove any barriers YOU have put up that have kept you from fellowshipping with the Lord.  Sometimes sin takes away our boldness to go before the throne.  The Lord doesn’t put up barriers but WE DO.  To acknowledge our sins and ignorances keeps us honest before the Lord.  But to confess in order TO GET SOMETHING FROM God I believe to be unscriptural and not needed.

What do I know when I know I’ve blown it?  I acknowledge it to my Father – I thank him for the forgiveness I have already have – I claim the power He has given me to not live that way and ask His grace so as not to do such evil again.  But I don’t ask God to forgive me for why should I ask Him for something that He has already done!!!???!!!  Claim the forgiveness you already have in Christa and go and sin no more!

What should understanding real forgiveness do for the saint?  It should humble him.  It should make him so grateful and thankful that he would not want to sin so easily.  It should call his mind to a quicker repentance when he does sin knowing that God sacrificed His only Son for sin.  

So, saint, guess what?  You are forgiven regardless of what you do.  Does this mean you should go out and live like the devil?  God forbid - Rom. 6:1,2 – your duty is to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith you have been called – Eph. 4:1.  Are you saved?  Then live like you are and let the world see a work of grace in you.

May God bless  

[Heidi]

Why do you read Eph. to see if you are forgiven? Why don't you confess your sins to God and ask Him to forgive them? Don't you KNOW Christ? Jesus said, "Now this is eternal life; that you know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He sent."  Do you pray? Who do you pray to? That is where your confession of sins belongs.mble ourselves before God in order to accpet this free gift. If we cannot do that, then we have not made it personal, that means pertaining to us. There can be NO repentance without confession. We don't have to confess our sins to a priest necessarily, but we have to confess them to Christ. That's what part of prayer life is.  

[AVBunyan]

1. Why do you read Eph. to see if you are forgiven?
2. Why don't you confess your sins to God and ask Him to forgive them?
3. Don't you KNOW Christ?  

1. Because Ephesians and Colossians is where it states that I am forgiven.
2. Because according to Ephesians and Colossians I am already forgiven in Christ.
3. Yes, I know Christ but I also know what Christ revealed to Paul to tell me - and that according to Ephesians and Colossians I am already forgiven in Christ.

Have a nice day now  

[Nickolai]

So you believe that Noone will go to Hell then?

[Warrior For Christ]

Do I believe a saint has to confess their sins in order to be forgiven?  Double NO!
Do I believe a saint has to confess their sins?  No

Now, why do I believe the above?
First – if I read my Bible right Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 says I am already forgiven.  When Christ died for my sins 2000 years ago He died for them all – the ones I, as a believer, did yesterday and the ones I am going to do later on.  If God forgave me at Calvary for my sins then I am forgiven.  My forgiveness is based upon Christ’s finished work at Calvary – not my confessing them.  

Let’s go further.  Let’s say I go in and talk mean to my wife.  This is sin.  I immediately sit down and read Eph. 1:7 – it says I am forgiven.  I go and get drunk (God forbid!) – this is sin.  I sit down and read col. 1:14 – it says I am forgiven.  You see I am forgiven – it is as though I never sinned or ever will in God’s eyes – read Ephesians 1.  My standing before God is sinless perfection.  Yes, I sin all day long because of this vile nature I still have in me but I am forgiven already based upon Calvary!

Now, here comes the saints’ “out”.  I John 1:9.  This is the main verse everyone uses to say we have to confess our sins. I call this verse the “Baptist mass” for many have abused this verse into thinking that all they have to do after they sin is to confess and all is done.
This has led to an abuse of the grace we have and given some a license to sin.  Shameful!

I John 1:9 is not for sinning and then asking God to forgive you so you can go and sin again.  I John 1:9 is not a license to sin and then be able to a "quick forgivness".

1 John 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Look real close if you are going to use this verse as your ammo.  Take it as it stand with no application or going to any worthless ancient word studies.
 
Here your forgiveness is based upon your confession. This forgiveness is conditional.  If you confess you get forgiveness – if you don’t – no forgiveness.  I’m not talking about your “fellowship” with the Father (as some says it “really” means) – I’m talking about forgiveness.

As mentioned above my forgiveness is in Jesus Christ – not by me asking forgiveness.  If you take this verse at face value for TODAY then you would be confessing your sins at an alarming rate.  And what if you forgot to confess one – according to the verse it means you are not forgiven and I’d like to see you get into heaven with any sins on you.  You see how if you take this verse here as it stand your new full time job as saint would be confessing all day long for we sin all day long!!!  You ought to get down on your knees right now and thank the Lord for grace!

Summary – the saint does not have to confess their sins in order to have those sins forgiven – the saint is already forgiven – was forgiven a long time ago.  
Does someone have to confess his or her sins in order to get forgiveness?  You bet – not sure who they are but I would be willing to bet that it has something to do with Israel and the tribulation period but I know one thing it contradicts Pauline doctrine of Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 so I know it doesn’t doctrinally apply to the blood-bought saint today.  Never said I understood it all - I just said it wasn’t for me today and I am glad!!!

Now – application  - Do I believe it is good to confess – yes.  It’s not a bad idea to cleanse the conscience before the Lord.  This could remove any barriers YOU have put up that have kept you from fellowshipping with the Lord.  Sometimes sin takes away our boldness to go before the throne.  The Lord doesn’t put up barriers but WE DO.  To acknowledge our sins and ignorances keeps us honest before the Lord.  But to confess in order TO GET SOMETHING FROM God I believe to be unscriptural and not needed.

What do I know when I know I’ve blown it?  I acknowledge it to my Father – I thank him for the forgiveness I have already have – I claim the power He has given me to not live that way and ask His grace so as not to do such evil again.  But I don’t ask God to forgive me for why should I ask Him for something that He has already done!!!???!!!  Claim the forgiveness you already have in Christa and go and sin no more!

What should understanding real forgiveness do for the saint?  It should humble him.  It should make him so grateful and thankful that he would not want to sin so easily.  It should call his mind to a quicker repentance when he does sin knowing that God sacrificed His only Son for sin.  

So, saint, guess what?  You are forgiven regardless of what you do.  Does this mean you should go out and live like the devil?  God forbid - Rom. 6:1,2 – your duty is to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith you have been called – Eph. 4:1.  Are you saved?  Then live like you are and let the world see a work of grace in you.

May God bless  

Amen

Thanks AVBunyan

[AVBunyan]

So you believe that Noone will go to Hell then?

Where did I say that?

[Nickolai]

So you believe that Noone will go to Hell then?

Where did I say that?

To say that noone has to repent of they're sins implies that.

[AVBunyan]

To say that noone has to repent of they're sins implies that.

You might want ot reveiw my post.  I am saying once a man has been saved and regenerated and put in Christ then postitionally he is perfect in Christ as though he had never sinned.  Because of his perfect standing in Christ forgivenss is his for eternity in Christ.  Notice I keep saying "in Christ".  to ask for forgiveness when one is already forgiven of all his sins through Christ is aksing God to do something he has already done.

Try this - just commmit a sin (let's say purposefully think a bad thought against someone - easy to do these days) then without repenting and begging forgiveness read the following:

Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Do you have forgiveness or not?  According to the verse you already have forgiveness.  Does this mean you go on living like a rebrobate?  Of course not - Eph. 4:1 and on clears that up.

Should you repent of your evil thought towards that person - of course but not to be forgivne or get to heaven for you are already in Christ forgiven!!!  does this give you a license to sin - of course not.  Rom. 6:1 covers this also.  

Again, with feeling - I am forgiven based upon what Christ did for me.  I am in Christ seated in heavenly places at the right hand of God.  In Christ I am perfect.  Try reviewing the following article:

Position vs. Practical – Standing vs. State

I think one of the reasons people are confused about eternal security and their Christian walk is that they confuse Position vs. Practical – Standing vs. State.

Position and Standing
This is how God sees you after he saved you and put you in His dear Son and seated you in heavenly places in Christ.  God knows that because of the sin nature in us He has to declare us righteous even though we are not.   God can do this because Christ has taken our place at Calvary and on this basis God declares us righteous.  So “in the books” the saint, from God’s standpoint, is perfect, as though he never sinned or ever will sin.  It has to be this way because if not we have no hope!

Practical and State
This is how we are down here.  We are still stuck in these vile bodies that likes to sin (Rom. 7).  Because of the sin nature still in us we are in a fight daily.  So, most of the time our state is a wreck.  Sins are associated with our state.

I think what people do is look at their “state” and are counting on their “state” to ultimately determine their “standing” before God.

Hey gang, if you are saved the standing is settled.  Does this mean you can quit now that Jesus “took and passed the final exam for you”?  No, we should strive to be all that God has called us to be.  

Our duty then?

Doctrine – Ephesians chapters 1-3 tells you your standing in Christ.  Then, Eph. 4-6 tells you how to walk because of that standing.   Eph. 4:1: “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.”  

In other words, “Now that you are perfect in Christ, walk your position heavenly position down here.”  Up there (heaven) is victory, holiness, forgiveness, and assurance. Are you going to fail down here?  Yes, so by the power of the Spirit and the instruction from the word as it is read and preached from the pulpit we are equipped to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called.

What happens when one doesn’t’ know his standing.    He looks at his state.  One day it is Alabama, one day it is Oregon, and the next day it is New York.  No stability and assurance there.  Then he begins to try harder, goes up and down in his walk, gets discouraged, and finally is in despair because he thinks his state will determine his standing.  A lot of time he even gives up because he gets too discouraged.

When a saint understands his standing and grace then he is so thankful, assured, and comforted that he is able to endure his vile flesh for he knows he is safe.  He is on guard and prepared for he knows it will take the power of God to finish the work that has been done (Phil 1:6).

Now that was long and boring to some but I trust it will encourage those who struggle in this area.  And lets face it – we all have a tendency to get discouraged in trying to live the Christian life and we forget that our standing guarantees God’s acceptance of us in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I can make it no clearer - I trust this may have cleared up what I feel the scriptures teach regarding the subject.

May God bless

[I_Believe]

For we have all become as one who is unclean, and all our righteousness is as a polluted garment: and we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (Isa 64:6)

For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us, for after saying, "This is the covenant that I will make with them: 'After those days,' says the Lord, 'I will put my laws on their heart, I will also write them on their mind;' " then he says, "I will remember their sins and their iniquities no more." Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. (Heb 10:14-18)

I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different "good news"; and there isn't another "good news." Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Good News of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any "good news" other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any "good news" other than that which you received, let him be cursed. For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn't be a servant of Christ. But I make known to you, brothers, concerning the Good News which was preached by me, that it is not according to man. For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Jesus Christ... when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I didn't immediately confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia. Then I returned to Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Peter, and stayed with him fifteen days. But of the other apostles I saw no one, except James, the Lord's brother... (Gal 1:6-24)

Then after a period of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus also with me. I went up by revelation, and I laid before them the Good News which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately before those who were respected, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain. But not even Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. This was because of the false brothers secretly brought in, who stole in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage; to whom we gave no place in the way of subjection, not for an hour, that the truth of the Good News might continue with you. But from those who were reputed to be important  (whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God doesn't show partiality to man)--they, I say, who were respected imparted nothing to me, but to the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the Good News for the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the Good News for the circumcision (for he who appointed Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision appointed me also to the Gentiles); and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcision. They only asked us to remember the poor--which very thing I was also zealous to do. But when Peter came to Antioch, I resisted him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before some people came from James, he ate with the Gentiles. But when they came, he drew back and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews joined him in his hypocrisy; so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they didn't walk uprightly according to the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live as the Gentiles do, and not as the Jews do, why do you compel the Gentiles to live as the Jews do? "We, being Jews by nature, and not Gentile sinners, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law. But if, while we sought to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a law-breaker. For I, through the law, died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me. That life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I don't make void the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!" (Gal 2:1-21)

Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth among you as crucified? I just want to learn this from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now completed in the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain, if it is indeed in vain? He therefore who supplies the Spirit to you, and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." Know therefore that those who are of faith, the same are children of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Good News beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you all the nations will be blessed." So then, those who are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham... Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree," that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brothers, speaking of human terms, though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been confirmed, no one makes it void, or adds to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He doesn't say, "To seeds," as of many, but as of one, "To your seed," which is Christ. Now I say this. A covenant confirmed beforehand by God in Christ, the law, which came four hundred thirty years after, does not annul, so as to make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by promise. What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the seed should come to whom the promise has been made... But the Scriptures imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, confined for the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus...(Gal 3:1-29)