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NOTE: I only want Christians to respond to this thread. I do NOT want non-Christians to respond to it since they do not care if sex takes place outside of marriage

This is the most controversial view that I support because both conservative and liberal minded people do not like it.

Conservative minded people support abstinence. There is nothing wrong with abstinence. However, when you ask these people when youth are deemed ready for marriage, they will usually say around the ages of 25-30. I believe this is too long of a time period for many people to wait. If you tell a bunch of teenagers that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and at the same time, say that they won't be ready for marriage until the ages of 25-30, do you really think they will be encouraged wait? Some will, but a lot of them will not. They will just end up engaging in premarital sex thinking to themselves, "Well I am not going to be ready for marriage until several years in the future, so I might as well have some sex now in the meantime".

Liberal minded people believe in "safe sex". That is, as long as a condom is used, it's okay for youth to engage in sex. They acknowledge that youth have sex drives and that many of them do not have the will power to wait several years into the future when society deems them ready for marriage. The problem with this approach is that it compromises Christian teaching that teaches that sex should only take place in marriage. Christians should not have to compromise their faith in order to accommodate their youth's sexual needs. Also, condoms and other forms of birth control are not fool proof. In other words, it helps to reduce the risk or pregnancy and STDs, but they do not eliminate the risk.

What are the reasons why I promote young marriages among Christian youth and young adults? Because it combines the best of both worlds. Because the sexual activity is taking place within marriage, it doesn't compromise Christian teaching. It also promotes monogamy. Also, if they go through a series of premarital counseling and the wedding itself, these young couples might take their relationship more seriously as husband and wife than if there were just boyfriend and girlfriend. Birth control can be used if they don't want children. If you are Catholic, you can use a certain natural method to avoid having children at the woman's fertile times.

The Bible verses that I use to justify this are these:

1 Cor. 7:1-2 (NKJV) says, "Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman, Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and each woman have her own husband."

1 Cor. 7:8-9 (NKJV) says, "But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

Here is what an anonymous former youth pastor has to say on the subject that I saw on another message board:

"I used to be a youth pastor in a large church, and I will tell you why abstinence programs do not work: because God (or if you prefer, Nature) made the human body to reproduce beginning in the teenage years. Around 16 is the healthiest time physically to have a baby; that's also when the hormones telling teenagers to go forth and multiply kick in really hard. To tell a teenager to suppress his or her God-given urges and not have sex till marriage and not get married until they're 25 or 30 is not only utterly unrealistic, it violates the very law that God has put in their hearts.

The church that I was in had the good sense to recognize this and actively promoted young marriages. If a young couple appeared to be getting serious about one another, they were invited to explore their relationship with their parents and the pastors. There was a special 8-week premarital class, and the church made it clear that parents were still expected to help support their married kids while they graduated from high school or college, learned a trade or started a business. Most teen couples continue to live with one set of parents or the other until they could be in financial shape to buy a house, with the parents expected to put up the down payment. And of course having parents around is built-in free child care and marriage counseling.

I'm very happy to say that this program works. I saw probably 10 or 12 teen marriages while I was with this church and only one of them has ended up in divorce. It's amazing what happens when you do things God's way."

Now I need to clarify some possible misunderstandings about what I support:

1) I do NOT support quick marriages. I am referring to Christian young couples who have been seeing each other for at least 2 years and who plan to marry anyway. But instead of putting that marriage off in the far distant future, they might marry after high school graduation.

2) I do NOT support marriages just to have sex. The couple have to sincerely love and care for each other in addition to wanting to have sex with each other or the marriage won't last. Sex may not be the number 1 reason for marriage, but according to one pastor, it is the number 3 reason. So while it's not number 1, it's still one of the most important aspects of marriage. Most people do not marry someone if they have no sexual interest in them.

As I said, I only want Christians respond. I am not interested in arguing with people who find nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage.

Here is an article written by a Catholic priest that supports young marriages. Please read it before responding:
Link (http://www.youngmarriages.com/articles/caseformarriage.htm)

Hmmm....well...my spiritual knee jerk reaction is no.   I don't think we should promote young teen people getting married in order to prevent premarital sex.   I'm not sure I could make an argument scripturally for that, but its just my off the cuff reaction.

I just don't think God made marriage to alieve our sex drive.   Gods purpose for marriage was far greater than procreation.   Sex was made for marriage, not marriage for sex....(if that makes any sense).  So getting married in order not to sin, misses the larger picture of what marriage is.   Now I know you said that these teens receive pre marriage guidance etc., so I am mindful of that too.    I received pre-marriage counseling before I was married at age 25, and I still probably wasn't ready for marriage though  :D....lol    So I don't know that counseling for young teens is going fully prepare someone that age for marriage.

I don't know...I guess I'll just end with I disagree, but thats just my feeling on the subject.   I'm certainly curious to hear from somone with more scriptural understanding in this particular area though.


Blessings!

Just to let you all know, in most parts of Canada and the United States, the age of marriage is 18. Marriage with parent's permission is 16.

I'm not saying that everyone has to marry in their teens. They can always wait until their early 20s, but definitely sooner than the typical 25-30 age bracket.

I'm not saying that some teens aren't ready for marriage.  My remark about being 25 when I got married was just about me personally.  (no comments from the peanut gallery about me being slow again...lol)

I'm just saying that if your seeking matrimony because your hormones are raging, and your looking for a license to sin (so to speak), you might be missing the bigger picture regarding marriage is all.

i'm 19 and happily married to a great woman. Now did i get married because my hormones were raging, nope. I must say that I don't think the church should "promote" anything first off. (I had to say it, those who know me know i'm analytical) Also, while many say that the age group is around 25-30, i believe it is up to the individuals themselves to decide, not to be influenced by the church into making a decision that for some is pre-mature and reckless. I would have to agree with 2nd Timothy's statements however I will add this. and some may disagree with me on this one, but the basis of a marriage consists of two entities. the man and woman who seek to become one and God. Yes, a biblically married couple will attend church and participate in the body of believers, but I do not think that the body of believers need to be influential in the marriage of teens. Some are ready for marriage, some are not. It also plays into the maturity of the two parties involved, as well as the solidity of their foundation and only with alot of prayer should the two take the necessary steps to become on in the eyes of God. On the issue of the sex before marriage, what does scripture say about the marriage bed being undefiled? Waiting on my bride and saving myself for marriage was the best decision I ever had help in making from God. and i say that because it took alot of prayer and dedication to the Word of God and the rewards continue to manifest themselves. That's all i'm gonna say for right now.

I see nothing wrong with marriage at the age of 18 or 19 if the couple is really ready for marriage. As 2T said, not for the reason that their hormones are raging and they can't seem to control them. That would be the argument that an alcoholic would use for drinking, I just can't control myself any longer.

I must disagree with the comment made on abstinence teaching not being effective. In the areas that abstinence programs have been well established it has been proven that unwed pregnancies are down, STD's have decreased, and suicide rates have diminished significantly. Polls taken by groups such as Planned Parenthood have been slanted to obtain the results they want, that of denigrating abstinence until marriage programs in order to substantiate their own program on abortions.

AMEN, - - 2T, Jemidon, and P.R.

Age is not the issue, I think it is the maturity of each person.  Each of us are different, just like 2T was on the slow side. ;)

Sorry 2T, I couldn't help it.......... ;D

Young Marriage? Young by whose standards? In the 30s, many girls were married by the time they were 15. In the 1800's a woman was considered an old maid if she wasn't married by 19. I don't think age has much to do with it. I think society has pushed sex down peoples throats to where it is the main thing on most peoples minds. Nearly every ad you read or see on TV is for something to look younger, feel younger, be slimmer, attract the opposite sex through sight, smell or whatever. We can thank Hollywood for much of this. To try to cover the sin by having a marriage license isn't going to work if they go into the marriage with the idea of "If it doesn't work out , we can always get a divorce." Lets face it folks, America has become a disposable Nation. Instead of fixing and reusing, we throw away and get new. It is sad, but marriage is one of the disposable things anymore. Not as far as God is concerned, but by the people themselves. JMHO :)

That is true. In the same aspect many young folks are not mature enough even and the age of 25-30 in todays world to realize that. One of the causes of this is that children are not being required to be responsible for their own actions. Their is a lack of discipline by the parents, the public schools and even the courts. It is a permissive society that we live in today in many aspects besides just sex and marriage.

I believe the article when it says that marriage is not for the mature but for those who will grow into maturity together. In other words, some people need to mature by being in a situation that will help make them mature, as opposed to putting a high age limit on certain things. You also have to take into account that around the age of 35 for women (and 30 for some women), pregnancy at an older age is risky. So you have to take the physical maturity into account too.

In the modern Christian world, abstinence is what is promoted. But in times past and outside North America, they seem more open to the marriage option. I don't see why the churches in North America can't promote young marriages along with abstinence. Do you notice that there are no abstinence programs in the Bible? It is true that the Bible teaches that sex outside of marriage is wrong, but they put a bigger emphasis on marriages than abstinence or celibacy.

There are two Bible ways to deal with sexual temptation. One way is to resist the temptation. The other way is to provide a morally acceptable outlet for sexual needs in the form of marriage; which the Apostle Paul recognized as quoted in the previous scriptures.

I am not saying that a person should marry just for sex. What I am saying is this; for those boyfriends and girlfriends who have been seeing each other for 2 or more years who are struggling to say faithful to God in the area of sexual morality, it might be better if they married earlier than to put off the marriage at some long future date and risk sinning against God.

I agree with you somewhat on this Jemdude. When speaking of maturity we must realize that there is a difference in such. There is a maturity in years and there is a maturity in spirit. Although we will never attain full spiritual maturity as long as we are here on earth there is a need for a certain amount of it in order for a marriage to have even a glimmer of hope of surviving. There must be a strong base to begin with. Without a strong foundation to build on the building will simply collapse at the first sign of a storm.

As for an abstinence program in the Bible it is there in the teachings. Abstinence in marriage is spoken of quite clearly. It isn't called such (Abstinence Program) but it is there all the same. This program was included in the teachings of the Church and the teaching of the young people.

Chiming in here,
as far as young marraiges, i would be opposed to such based on the fact that most young people are not mature enough for it.  i have raised 6 kids. I have been through the teenager years where they come in all upset and ready for blood when someone talks about them behind their backs when in all reality they should say whatever, its not true and it doesn't matter.

I have one grandson, and i told my son and my grandsons mother that they should not get married based on some simple reasons.  one is, that my son is a Marine in the marine corp. he is married to the corp right now.  She would never be willing to share him with the mistress of the Corp.
Second reason is he drinks because he is in the corp. Its something that basically all marines do because of boredom.  They are stuck in a base at peacetime or between battles and they get bored and all that is around there for them to do is drink.  i told her don't marry him unless he is willing to give up the alchohol.
third reason is He isn't ready to settle down even though he has a son.  He takes care of his son but he's not ready.
Fourth but most important reason is if they do not love each other they have no business getting married.  that only ends in disaster.  it might last 1 year, 2 years or even 16 years. But its doomed to failure if you don't love the other person and get married with the reasoning that you will fall in love over time. That is a fantasy.
Another thing that is wrong is to get marreid because a girl is pregnant.  thats just plain idiotic because no love means no chance.
last of all, if there anything like two of my other kids, no careeers nothing but min wage jobs as they get them, they cannot support a family, and I personally disagree with the article on the parents supporting them.  I raised my kids and at 18 their adults and on their own. I am not going to support them and their spouse and their kids.  I have done my time.  DOn't get me wrong, i love them but they seriously try a parents patience between 13 and 18.

I would have to say no.   Some people will suggest that abstinence education doesn't work, and in many instances it doesn't, but we don't need more children growing up in a broken home.   Statistically, those who get married too early are more likely to seek a divorce before 2 years.   Abstinence might not be popular or even all that effective, but that is what is necessary both morally and religiously.

There are just a couple of things that I may add to this discussion.

As far as abstinence is concerned.  I would like to point you towards two examples.  Jesus and Paul.  We all know Jesus was without wife, and so was Paul.  Paul spoke of the marriage and it's position with God and sex within the marriage, but yet he remained without a wife.  I know there are more but those are the two big ones.

As far as physical maturity again I can point to two.  Sarah and Elizabeth.  Both well past their "prime" and yet the Lord saw fit to bless them with children.  It does not matter the age, if it is in God then Gods will be done. 

As it was stated earlier "Sex was made for marriage, not marriage for sex."  God saw fit that we would have to procreate.  And God instituted marriage to be the vessel for that.  And God blessed us in that He did make the act of procreating something that is pleasurable.  And then man has taken that and perverted it and placed that as an idol right up there with money.

I was finally married when I was 27.  I had back in high school had a sweet heart that we dated for just over 2 years.  We had dreams of getting married...but then we started to grow up and we matured away from each other.  (A shame cause she has money now ;)   ).  Another I was engaged and with that girl for just over 2 years.  She could not handle me being in the Navy.  I do not blame her.  Then I met my wife.  And all that God had for me became clear.  I knew that I had not matured enough before and was not ready for marriage.  But then I was.
So don't worry 2T....I was even slower :)

So it is all dependent upon the people involved.  I have seen high school sweethearts that have lasted for quite some time.  And I have seen the same broken up within the first couple of years...and usually after at least one child. 

I believe that our churches should be teaching the Bible.  Which teaches we must never let our physical or emotional urges get in the way of doing God's will.  And if God's will is to be married at an early age then He will let all involved know it.  If it is to wait until He has made us ready then so be it.  Submission to God first, and only after that can we truly submit unto our spouses in a Godly manner and allow Jesus to rule in our homes.

I also believe that our churches should also engage in pre-marital counseling for ANY couple who wishes to attend.  This could be open for those that are simply dating, on up to those that are engaged.  This counseling should again be Biblically based and to show how we are to focus on God first, even before our spouses.  And if we do that then God will truly bless our marriage. 

I am not saying that sex is the number 1 reason for marrying, but it's still one the top reasons for marrying. For example, if you love and care for someone of the opposite sex deeply, but have no sexual interest in that person, would you marry that person? The answer is no. Such a person would make a good friend, but you would not make such a person your wife or husband. So don't underestimate the importance of sex in a marriage.

From my search on the internet, the young marriage option seems popular among the Muslim community. It's interesting that both Christians and Muslims abhor sex outside of marriage, but at the same time, have different primary ways of dealing with the problem.

This is not a muslim forum nor do we allow promotion of such. Muslims allow marriage of children that are in no way mature enough physically or any other aspect.

Not only that in many Muslim areas it is still arranged marriages.  So there is not even the excuse of love to be had.

I am not disagreeing with you about both Paul and Jesus being without wives, but is that backed up by the Bible? I have been seeing many things on Tv about Jesus being married to Mary Magdelene. They say they have found other letters written by Paul that talk about Jesus and Mary haveing Children. I have always been taught different, but what does the Bible actually say?

Yes, it is backed up by the Bible. Paul states in 1 Cor 7:8 that he remained single.

We know that Jesus remained pure because He was the perfect sacrifice in our place. Even Jesus sanctified celibacy in Mat 19 "for the kingdom of heaven's sake". Many of these "books" that are coming out recently were written by the Gnostics which made an attempt to denigrate the deity of Jesus in order to elevate themselves as equals or even above Him. These are all attempts by the devil to make Jesus look like an ordinary man and nothing more.

One other point....is that Jesus purpose in this life was to reconcile man to God....not marry and establish an earthly family.

Jesus said:
Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.  

Jesus was not looking for women to wed in this life.  He was seeking a Bride consisting of ALL believers...HIS CHURCH to present to His Father.   Not some woman in the 1st Century.   It was all about redeeming all men to God.

Rev 21:9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

If you read the rest of Revelation chapter 21, you will see the Lambs bride.

Seems like each year now there is more and more supposed evidence regarding Jesus earthly life and so called secrets revealing things we never knew about Him.   This is all nonsense, and clearly an outright attempt by the enemy to confuse man regarding Grace and Salvation.   Much of that evidence you see on TV, is quickly debunked as well, many times by non-Christian scientists as surprising as that is.

Blessings!

Amen 2nd Timothy!

Brother, it really does seem as if the devil knows that time is short and is working overtime in building up to his worst. There's no doubt that great numbers of people will be deceived, most especially those who enjoy the dark and really want to stay there. There will be many reasons for men and women to stay away from he LIGHT, and the consequences will be eternal.

The life of Paul was quite beautiful. He really didn't want to divide his devotion between JESUS CHRIST and a wife. Paul basically was saying that it would be better to marry if one wasn't strong enough to avoid the temptation of sin with a woman, but the BEST was 100% dedication to JESUS CHRIST. Many confuse these teachings and think that Paul taught there was something evil or wrong with marriage. BUT, we all know there are many teachings of Paul that are misrepresented. The devil wants Paul's message to be misunderstood and questioned because Paul's primary message was the BEST NEWS ever heard on this earth - JESUS CHRIST, the CROSS, and rescue from the curse of sin and death.

I think that Paul would be a fascinating man to meet. For Christians, I always associate Paul with running a good race, fighting a good fight, and finishing the course to hopefully hear one day, "Well done good and faithful servant."

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:28 NASB  And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

This is an interesting thread. 
In my opinion, when marriage and family were looked on positively, and people understood we do not live this life in a vacuum but have infinite affect on those around us, young marriages were extremely healthy. 
Unfortunately, society has done the typical stray away from God's design, and most people are now too concerned about themselves to worry about their choices having a negative affect on the young people who are following, be it children, nieces/nephews, or whatever.
How many people do you know that you graduated with who don't still have the same juvenile attitudes that they had in school?
People do not "grow up" nowadays, for the most part, and we wonder why the next generation can't "get it together."
Not being responsible, making right choices, loving BY CHOICE with our whole hearts; those are the things that are making marriages not work.
Who's willing to step up to the plate and be a worthy example?
Not many nowadays, I'm afraid.  Too much fun to act and live immaturely.
This selfishness is destroying families, churches, and the United States.
What happens in the heart ripples out and touches the whole world.
When we can stop putting our feelings in the number one position, and use the heads God gave us to control those feelings, then we can be the example God wants us to be.
Christ CHOSE to die for us.
I PRAISE HIM HE DID NOT PUT HIS OWN "WANTS" FIRST, BUT WAS WILLING TO DIE FOR ALL MANKIND!

My opinion, anyway  ;)

An excellent opinion.

The following is something that I wrote elsewhere that also fits the subject of Jesus not be married to Mary of Magdalene.

No Woman is Called "Wife of Jesus"

Luke 8: 1-3, is the main passage that people point to claim that Jesus Christ was married, because for what other reason did these three women travel among a group of men?

Luk 8:1  And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
Luk 8:2  And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
Luk 8:3  And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.


Mary is always called Mary of Magdalene, because she was from the town of Magdala. Unlike Joanna the wife of Cuza, Mary Magdalene is NEVER referred to as the wife of Jesus. Even at the cross she was still referred to as Mary of Magdalene.

Joh 19:25  Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

When Mary saw the resurrected Jesus in John 20:14-17, she did call Him husband or darling or anything of that sort, rather she called Him Raboni, or teacher.

Joh 20:14  And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Joh 20:15  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Joh 20:16  Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Joh 20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Isn't the whole idea of Christ and Mary being married a leftover from "Jesus Christ Superstar?"

I hate leftovers!

Actually it was leftovers from the Gnostics, but then leftovers are leftovers.

Actually, the notion of Mary being the Wife of Jesus is now being "Proved"( Yeah right) by using the picture of the Lord's Supper, painted by Leonardo Divinci. It is said that Mary is the Holy Grail and is depicted standing next to Jesus in the picture.
 I myself can't tell by looking whether the painting depicts a man or a woman, but I do know a little about Mr. Leonardo. He was ostrisized by the Church for being a bastard. He has no love for Christian Churches or what they stood for. He had a fanstastic mind, but has harmed the Christians as much as Darwin. I say they have harmed Christians, perhaps it is more the seperating of the goats from the sheep.8)

Do not believe anything that is related to Dan Browns work with Da Vinci and all of that. 

They try to say that John in the Last Supper is Mary.  What they fail to ignore is Da Vinci's early sketches for the work have the people labeled and that is John.

It could all seem so comical if so many people weren't believing it :(  .

YES - this is very sad, but the Holy Bible tells us that the devil will deceive many. This has been true for the entire course of human history, but it's listed again as a sign of the end of this age. As Christians, the Bible tells us that no man knows the day or hour, but we should all have an urgency to share the GOOD NEWS with the lost. It really doesn't matter if we have 3 months, 3 years, 300 years, or 3,000 years left before the 2nd Coming of JESUS CHRIST. This might be the last day of life for the lost person we are trying to witness to, so there is always an urgency.

I would simply ask every Christian to never pass up an opportunity to share the GOOD NEWS. I'm convinced that GOD gives all of us opportunities to share on a regular basis, and we should use them. Today might also be our last day in this short life. We really don't know, and nobody but GOD does know. I must state that the young and the strong tend to never think about dying, but many of them die every day. SO, we should never put off something that deals with eternity. If you are lost and reading this - Don't wait another day - make your decision for CHRIST today!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 1:17 NASB  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Hebrews 11:6 NASB  And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Well if no one minds, I would like to throw my opinion in here.  I am almost 16 years old.  I think that the church shouldn't support waiting OR going ahead and getting married.  I think that the church should above anything else encourage the couple to pray, pray, pray!  It doesn't matter if we think we are old enough.  Age doesn't matter a bit if God doesn't want 2 people to be together.  I do agree that if you are older you will be more capable of making a good decision.  But, I think that there are probably just as many 25 clueless couples as there are 15 year olds.  If you tell kids to wait because they should wait until they are more mature, they are just gonna have sex so that they don't have to wait 10 years.  And if you tell them to go ahead and get married so they can have sex that's gonna be the 1 and only reason they get married in many cases, but not all.  As a teenager, I think that most of us are too young to really know if we are in love or just raging hormones and being gulible.  Also, I know that there is a good thought behind teenge premarital counseling, but I will tell you that in many cases, teenagers will sit through that class not paying the least bit of attention (we have a lot of practice at this).  They are just waiting for it to be over so that they can go and do their own thing. 

Hello MJC,

Appropriate portions of this conversation are beyond what we can do here. These are extremely important issues that should be dealt with very seriously in a more appropriate and private setting. A class done at church specifically for teens and done in the right way would be excellent, but nothing can relieve the parents of their responsibilities in this area.

According to the Bible, a husband is to love his wife in the same way that JESUS CHRIST loves HIS CHURCH. JESUS CHRIST gave HIS life on the CROSS, so this is a perfect description of real LOVE. Humans won't ever be able to match the same kind of Love that JESUS has for us, but this is what real love is. The world has a very cheap definition of love, and it usually involves selfish pleasure and temporary gratification.

Young men and women should be taught by their parents about what real love is. There's a problem here because many parents apparently don't know what real love is, and they define it much like the world does. I would say this is a primary reason for grossly escalating failed marriages and many other nightmares associated with the world's definition of love. Real love is a thousand times more than just sex. About as blunt as I can get here: just sex is nearly always use and abuse that has nothing at all to do with real love.

Real love involves much higher things:

Bowing before GOD in a Holy Bond.

Making CHRIST the head of the man and woman.

Sharing and bearing everything together as one.

Caring for the spouse more than caring for themselves.

Compromise, sacrifice, and more than anything - Yielding to GOD first.

I feel sorry for young people who have never been taught what real love is, mainly because they don't know what to look for in their decisions for marriage. Beyond the above descriptions, the parents should get very blunt with their young men and women. Sadly, it appears that many young men and women don't have a clue and were never taught. It does get too blunt to share here, but I'll say one more thing again. Just sex is most of the time use and abuse - an opposite of real love. Cheap, disposable, and throwaway should come into the discussion that we really can't have here.

We can talk about real love here all we want to. I hope everyone understands that we have young members and readers. This is not the time or place to get into graphic details - except in the area of real love. Would that other person die for you? Intimacy is a good word that can mean many things, some as simple as just enjoying someone's company, talking, and actually enjoying many other things that are part of everyday life. A Christian grows in strength as intimacy with CHRIST increases. Our walk in CHRIST is intimacy, and this becomes more and more important as we mature. There's nothing temporary about this relationship and fellowship with our LORD and SAVIOUR. The same is true for a man and woman who share real love in a union with CHRIST as the head of that home. There are hundreds of things every day that are real love, and that real love grows stronger and stronger - just as we grow stronger in CHRIST. CHEAP is not a word that can be associated with this union. Beautiful is more appropriate, and this doesn't hint that every day will be easy. The man and woman will do as they promised in their vows before GOD. There will be good times and bad - hard times and easy - sickness and health - and everything else in life that is shared by these two who have formed a Holy Union under GOD. This is real love, and Hollywood can't portray it on the big screen. It's far too beautiful and expensive than what Hollywood can handle. Hollywood portrays and glorifies cheap and temporary things that lead to misery and unhappiness in this short life.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 2:1-2 NASB  Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

I am very sorry.  The last thing I am trying to do is cause trouble or say anything innapropriate.  I don't want seen as a troublemaker.   I enjoy reading and writing on this forum and I don't want to do anything to mess that up.  Please forgive me.

mJc

Hello MJC,

You didn't do anything wrong, and you didn't say anything bad. I was simply trying to tell you that I couldn't reply to you with everything I'd really like to say on this topic. I have much more to say about this topic, and I really do wish some times that I had a chance to say bluntly what I really want to say to young men and young women starting out in life. I'm not even hinting that I'm smart or have any big secrets, rather a version of the unvarnished truth that might save a lot of misery for young people.

You have been very reasonable with your conversations here and don't have to worry about anything you've done on the forum. You've been very positive and constructive. I enjoy reading your posts. Now, I hope that you understand I wasn't saying anything about you, rather trying to explain why I couldn't answer in the way that I would really like to answer.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Matthew 11:28-30 NASB  "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.  "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.  "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

   

 13By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because he first loved us.

I; will start off with those verses from 1 john 4 to illustrate a point. The words "true love" are thrown around alot without really knowing the true meaning of "love" and what all that encompasses. I agree with you MJC that the church should pray for those people, however, i will state this that marriage is a holy bond between a man and woman and God. It is a unity between the man and woman who are become one in the holy bonds of matrimony. I am 19 and have been married since August of last year. It's been a change, but we both prayed hard and recieved confirmation that God has blessed our marriage to one another. Also, if the church were to promote young marriages in order for teens not to commit fornication, that is a complete contridiction as to what Paul wrote in Corinthians i believe. I firmly believe if a couple is influenced by outside forces i.e. the church to get married dto avoid fornication (sex before marriage) then that degrades the meaning of marriage. It would tell our teens that "hey, i can get married and have sex, then get a divorce, or it could even lead to adultery in many cases, should either person in the marriage get bored, or tired with their mate and begin lusting after another person. There are many avenues to sin that have the possibility of being opened should the church "promote" that. While they would be "preventing" sexual immorality in a sense, the result would be a degredation of marriage, possible adultery, even divorce. So how can people know true love then? By learning from God, no man can teach "true love' It is shown by God Himself who IS Love. Through His Son Jesus Christ. Here are a few lyrics that sum up exactly what I mean.

How Deep The Father's Love

How deep the Father's love for us
How vast beyond all measure
That He should give His only Son
And make a wretch His treasure
How great the pain of searing loss
The Father turns His face away
As wounds which mar the Chosen One
Bring many sons to glory

Behold the man upon the cross
My sin upon His shoulder
Ashamed I hear my mocking voice
Call out among the scoffers
It was my sin that held Him there
Until it was accomplished
His dying breath has brought me life
I know that it is finished

I will not boast in anything
No gifts, no power, no wisdom
But I will boast in Jesus Christ
His death and resurrection
Why should I gain from His reward
I cannot give an answer
But this I know with all my heart
His wounds have paid my ransom

and the author of this song asks a great question that many have asked and can only be summed up with three words. "God IS love"

 What kind of love is this
That climbs the hill
That bears the cross
That takes the nails
What kind of love is this
That takes my place
That gives His life
And clears my name
Oh, I want to know
What kind of love is this

Chorus:
It's wonderful
It's glorious
It's full of grace
And full of mercy
Powerful
It's marvelous
That's what this love is
That's what God's love is

VERSE(2)
What kind of love is this
That cries alone
That tastes of death
To bring me home
Oh, I want to know
What kind of love this is

VERSE(3)
What kind of love is this
That fills my soul
That lifts me up
And makes me whole
What kind of love is this
That gives me hope
That dries my tears
And brings me joy
Oh, I want to know
What kind of love this is

VERSE(4)
Jesus, Jesus
He's full of grace
And full of mercy
Jesus, my Jesus
This is what love is
That's what God's love is

Just a few thoughts.x

You knoww I have no problem being blunt about an issue BEPS.  but I can get the point across tactfully lol. hee hee...enjoy the post

Amen Brother!

YES - I did enjoy your post, and I agree with it 100%.

I many times do feel the generation(s) gap when trying to have conversations with young adults. It would probably be humorous to know what they were thinking about while reading the old square's post (that's me).   ;)

It's my opinion that our societies in this part of the world are falling apart right now - right before our very eyes. Does this sound like an old square talking?   ;)

Being very serious, statistics do indicate that marriage failures are still escalating - along with many other problems associated with cheap sex. I do wonder how many people know what real love is, and the Bible is the best way to explain real love. I do remember quite a few young people looking at me like I was out of my mind while trying to share the Godly version of the birds and bees talk. I'll have to say that I still believe strongly that young people should be told the blunt truth about love and relations from a Biblical perspective. It concerns me greatly that this doesn't appear to be much of a priority these days, and the result is most commonly misery, confusion, marriage failure, and worse.

It's really not fun to watch all of the pain and misery of huge percentages of marriage these days. I simply give thanks that I have a happy marriage with CHRIST as the head of our home. All Glory goes to GOD! We've been married for almost 35 years now, and we love each other more now than ever. I might even be able to entertain some of the young folks here and talk about some of the intimate things we do. We like to hold hands and talk. Tell the truth - how many of you were worried about what I would say next?    ;D

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 12:27 NASB  Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

John 17:11 NASB  "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

BEPS,
I had misunderstood what you were trying to say.  Now that I read what you said and put it all together I understand your point. 

I was kind of worried about that  :)

I for one feel is it very imperative for the Church to promote young marriages to deal with moral issues and most importantly sexual morality. sex is a covenant between a wife and husband and it is only valued by God within the bounds of marriage. It's high Christians start practising what the Word of God Instructs and We should stop relying on our Human Knowledge

Hi OWAM,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

Getting married young is not necessarily the answer but I do agree with you that Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Bible definitely are.

Marriage and having children, and becoming a Christian is what matured me, not age.  There are plenty of old adolescents running around.  I was one; I became a Christian after marriage and children and I married at 38.

And, in answer to the question, should the Church encourage early marriage . . . yes, yes, yes . . . with prayer and understanding of the person and the actual situation. Early marriage certainly shouldn't be discouraged. It is not wise to expect your average person marrying in their late 20’s or in their 30’s to remain sexually pure until marriage, not because it is right to sin, but because it is right to marry if your urges are strong and difficult to control.  Paul said this directly in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9: "Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

Sex is one of the reasons to get married and it’s valid to feel that way.

I think with the acceptance and promotion of late marriage around our dinner tables and in our advice, Christians have bought into a career oriented, worldly view of things. Getting a college degree, establishing a career, is more important than remaining celibate. We don't directly say that, but we discourage early marriage and children and encourage building up a career and education.  We say wait on marriage for sex, but wink at the failure to stay pure when a person is in their 20’s and 30’s, or at least recognize it's not our decision but theirs . . . and then we say "boy, isn’t the company you work for great?"

The problem I see for the mature young Christian is finding another mature young Christian, in this society, who is worthy to marry and who also wants an early marriage, after a celibate courtship.  That is not an easy task.

Hello Greg,

WELCOME!


I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite.

Greg, I disagree completely with what Christians have or have not done with their children about marriage. I also disagree completely with the motives you suggest.

I can only speak for myself and the Christians who I know. We have encouraged our children to marry ONLY for real love and make a REAL vow under GOD. Regarding sex, I'm not aware of any Christians who condone or encourage sex outside of marriage. Contrary to your statement that "Christians have bought into a worldly view of things", the opposite is true for the Christians I know. Further, I would hope that sex is not one of a person's primary reasons for marriage. If it is, it will be a short marriage and the vows will be broken. This might be one of the reasons why so many marriages today fail and end in divorce. I might add that there is considerable misery along the way. The instructions of the Holy Bible are still quite accurate and TRUE, but we can't take what we like and discard what we don't like.  Fornication and adultery are still sins, so nothing has changed. AND, a real marriage has CHRIST as the head of the home. Advocating anything less is encouraging a path to misery.

Hello Greg,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

There are many today that call themselves Christian that advocate all sorts of things outside of those that are right according to the Bible.

Paul was not advocating marriage at an early age. The proper age of marriage was not a part of the context of this scripture (1 Cor). He did say that sex without marriage was a sin. The intent of this portion of scripture was simply the moralistic setting of the situation of marriage. Part of this was to stay celibate until marriage.

Paul also spoke of what a marriage should be like in Eph 5. Here he is telling of the importance of love in the relationship. If love is not present the marriage is doomed to fail. While it is true that love ages like wine, there must be love to begin with in order for that love to grow to a deeper level. A marriage based on lust is like a wine without an agent to prevent it from turning to vinegar.

AMEN beps, and PR.

Hello Greg, and welcome to Christians Unite forum. I will disagree with your post, for the same reasons Blackeyedpeas, and Pastor Roger disagreeded with you.

Thank you for the welcomes.  I actually agree with the responses to my post, Love is the most important thing for the man to consider in entering into marriage.  Ephesians 5 seems to say to me, as far as marriage goes, that the woman must also consider whether the man is Godly and whether she can truly submit to the particular man and whether she wants to.  The "equally yoked" passage also tells us as well that we all, man and woman, should think about the relationship with Christ of a person before marrying.

"Burning with passion" as Paul put it, is only one of the considerations regarding marriage, but it is a consideration.  I see the love discussed in Ephesians 5 slightly differently than some might, however.  I read it in context with 1 Corinthians 13, in which love is defined for us. Agape love is a decision a Christian makes . . . to be patient, to be kind, not to be envious or boasting or proud, to trust, to hope and to persevere.  This is not the natural state of man or his nature, this is a man acting with God's grace and striving to love as Christ loved.  I worry that we, as Christians, sometimes internally apply the "love" of a Walt Disney cartoon, a Prince and Princess kind of love, a modern romantic concept rather than the Biblical concept. This is particularly true when we discuss romantic relationships. Most of us who are married know that romantic passion does not always make us loving in a 1 Corinthians 13 way . . . it will carry us forward in good and happy times . . . but sickness, finances, and difficulties arise where we must choose love rather than expect it will be an organic and natural response at all times for us.

I think the advice to marry late and develop other things that are socially important instead is actually bad advice for many . . . it puts the young Christian in a morally tempting situation where they are more likely to stumble . . .

This depends also on what a person considers as being late or early. I see this as varying from one person to the next. Some may be mature enough in Christ to be ready at the age of 18 or 19 others may not be and those usually end in a disastrous situation. Some try to advocate a marriage as young as 14 or even 12 because they could "not contain themselves". When in all reality many individuals do not even try. Especially so since it is being pushed in our public schools today to do whatever you want with no teaching of the consequences or responsibilities of such actions. Even many churches are not conducting proper teachings in this same manner resulting in people making many mistakes without even trying to stay pure till marriage nor, once married, trying to make that marriage work.

The issue here is Christian marriage, so we can really boil things down to very simple teaching and choices:

1 - Lust and the world are the master.

2 - Love and CHRIST are the MASTER.

Christians are becoming more an more like the world, so Christians have almost the same percentage of broken homes as the lost do. This is the price when any compromise is made in getting away from the instructions of the Holy Bible. The price is horrendous, and it also has a bad impact on the testimony of the Christian.

This life is short, and this world is not our home. All of our choices obviously impact us and everyone around us. Lust is a ruthless master and its victims are miserable. Have Christians forgotten how to define "Happiness"? As far as I'm concerned, the answers are very simple basics in the Holy Bible. Compromise with the devil and the world is not on the answer list for a Christian.

SO, what should we be teaching our children and WHY? A much harder question for many Christians today is, What kind of an example have we set for our children? How many have tried things the world's way and have nothing but misery to show for the effort? Let's ask a few more questions:

1 - If we are Christian parents, do we have a duty to our children according to the Bible?

2 - As Christian parents and grandparents, should we feel a duty to serve as a proper example with our lives, testimonies, and marriages?

3 - Do we do our children any favors by condoning or encouraging worldly ways for our children?

4 - Do we question whether the LORD'S ways are right, correct, and what we should be teaching our children?

5 - What do we want for our children? If we DON'T fulfill our duties as Godly parents and our children fall into pits of misery, how much of this will be our fault?

6 - As Christian parents, have you already been in that pit of misery that I spoke of once, twice, or more? If so, did you ever figure out how you got there? Please don't tell us that you fell into the pit because you followed Biblical instructions about marriage. We already know that GOD didn't fail - you did.

7 - If you have been in that pit of misery, do you want the same things for your children? Are you capable of humbling yourself and explaining to your children why you failed and set a poor example for them? Can you teach them how to avoid the same failures, or do you care?

Brothers and Sisters, I'm not hinting that Christian parents and grandparents can be perfect or anywhere near perfect. So, forget about any suggestion of practicing self-righteousness. Everything good and right about us is from GOD, and that's why CHRIST is the Head of the Home in Biblical instructions for marriage. Are the Biblical instructions too hard to attempt? If so, why did they work so well for many hundreds of years? Did the Biblical instructions just start failing about 50 years ago, or did Christians stop following Biblical instructions?

LET'S GET REAL! - Christians already know the answers to these questions. Are the answers any big secret? Hosts of Christians would have avoided untold misery by doing one of two things:

1 - Trying with great effort to follow Biblical instructions for marriage with CHRIST as the Head of the home.

2 - Avoiding marriage completely and living a life of celibacy.

Brothers and Sisters, remember that this world isn't our home. This life will be very short, and our Citizenship is in Heaven.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 4:16 NASB  Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Galatians 2:20 NASB  "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Psalms 36:7 NASB  How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.

Colossians 1:13-14 NASB  For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

1 Corinthians 3:16 NASB  Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Romans 5:1-2 NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

I don't really think that there is any magic age at which someone is mature or ready for marriage or anything else.  Every person is different.  I think that its ok for young people to marry if they are truly in love and have prayed about the situation.  Only the two people involved know if this is the case.  I know that I don't want to wait until I am thirty to get married.  I would like to find the person God wants me to be with and settle down at a fairly young age.  Not so that it will be ok for me to experience certain things, but because I don't want to go through the whole trial and error process.  I don't want to date 50 different guys and get my heart broken and still be clueless as to what direction my life is going in.  I want to go ahead and figure things out and have a family and live the life God has planned out for me.  I feel like I am a mature enough young person to make the right decision.  But there are many people my age(16) who are not anywhere near mature enough or stable enough to settle down and get married.  It really just depends on the people.  But I believe that it is wrong to promote young marriage for any reason other than true, God planned love.  I don't think that anyone can honestly say that they believe God would condone getting married only to make sex all right.

mJc

Hello MJC,

I think that I've already posted most of my concerns in this area. I know this isn't something to be taken lightly, quickly, or without considerable prayer.

I've been married once, and that will be all. We've been married for over 35 years, and GOD has richly blessed us. We are and have been very happy, and I wish the same thing for you. I'm positive that it isn't a matter of luck, rather of real love, prayer, and GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 1:13-14 NASB  For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I think some of the young people make the best points in this thread.  As far as 12 or 14 year old marriage I would certainly oppose something like that for my own daughter.  But 16, 18 I would approach her as an adult on the issue, I think, with about the same advice I'd give a 30 year old.  If women married more often at 18, they could have 15 years to have children, raise them, get them in school, and then turn back to her studies and her career without interfering with child-rearing.  What we do now is have so many of our young women focus on career and then often marry late . . . when they are less fertile and have less energy to deal witht the tykes -- it's sort of backwards from my point of view.  Career first, children second is backwards.

Hello Greg,

It appears that you've now advocated a worldly view, part of what you complained about earlier. There is a Biblical and Godly view on this issue, and that would be the only reasonable advice for an adult Christian to give to a young Christian. Plainly and bluntly, if what you think is in contention with the Holy Bible, we don't care what you think. If you are a Christian, you should already know that worldly views of many issues lead to disaster, misery, sin, and the wages of sin. There does come a time when it will be necessary for you to make your mind up about whether you should be giving Christian advice or non-Christian advice. That time is now.

It won't work here for you to represent yourself as an adult Christian and give non-Christian, worldly advice to our young people here.  It would be more accurate to say that you won't be allowed to do that here. This is a Christian forum. Worldly ways in this issue have been and are a disaster, and we have no desire to advise our young people in ways that will cause suffering and misery for them. I hope this is clear enough for you to understand.

Moderator

Sorry Greg, the Bible tells us the worldly view is wrong. 

Matthew 18:7 Woe to the world for such temptations to sin and influences to do wrong! It is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the person on whose account or by whom the temptation comes!

I'll follow Gods word every time, not mans view.

I believe all that christians who plan to marry should study the book of Ephesians re: marriage...So many who attend a singles group in curches marry and divirce then recycle themselves in the singles group. The divorce rate is so high even amoung the churches for lack of knowledge of God's word and to trust His word for their lives...I have been married for 35 years and the best advice I have ever been given re: marriage is to never marry a non christian...for by marrying a christian, you are treated in the manner God would have you treated.
Maryjane

It appears that you've now advocated a worldly view, part of what you complained about earlier. There is a Biblical and Godly view on this issue, and that would be the only reasonable advice for an adult Christian to give to a young Christian. Plainly and bluntly, if what you think is in contention with the Holy Bible, we don't care what you think. If you are a Christian, you should already know that worldly views of many issues lead to disaster, misery, sin, and the wages of sin. There does come a time when it will be necessary for you to make your mind up about whether you should be giving Christian advice or non-Christian advice. That time is now

I disagree. Marriage is a practical decision as well as a spiritual one. We are in the world but not of the world, and we have practical advice to give one another regarding living in the world as Christians. To simply point to Ephesians is very good.  However, it is not the "only reasonable advice for an adult Christian to give to a young Christian."  I married late and I have a practical understanding of the difficulties that poses, in the world, for an adult Christian. We are not commanded to be mute when we have already quoted scripture and have none new to add. It would be an that marriage and raising a family is often more difficult when older, and better when young and energetic -- and that interesting sermon that did not expound on the Bible, but only quoted it!  Probably a great one if it could be pulled off.  But it would not do to require all sermons to be only the quoting of scripture.  We all, as Christians, have our lives in Christ as witness to one another.  My strong belief is that the world tells children that career, money, looks, fame, and ease of living is more important than looking for a wife or husband when they are young.  I say the reverse -- young people should know that.  I will be retirement age when the children leave the house! Starting a family has been a blessing and one that I wish I had when I was much younger. Genesis 2:18, “The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." How is my view in contention with the Bible? If it is, I will change my view.

Post above had a sentence cut and dropped out of place, here is proper post.I disagree. Marriage is a practical decision as well as a spiritual one. We are in the world but not of the world, and we have practical advice to give one another regarding living in the world as Christians. To simply point to Ephesians is very good.  However, it is not the "only reasonable advice for an adult Christian to give to a young Christian."  I married late and I have a practical understanding of the difficulties that poses, in the world, for an adult Christian. We are not commanded to be mute when we have already quoted scripture and have none new to add. It would be an interesting sermon that did not expound on the Bible, but only quoted it!  Probably a great one if it could be pulled off.  But it would not do to require all sermons to be only the quoting of scripture.  We all, as Christians, have our lives in Christ as witness to one another.  My strong belief is that the world tells children that career, money, looks, fame, and ease of living is more important than looking for a wife or husband when they are young.  I say the reverse -- that marriage and raising a family is often more difficult when older, and better when young and energetic -- and that young people should know that.  I will be retirement age when the children leave the house! Starting a family has been a blessing and one that I wish I had when I was much younger. Genesis 2:18, “The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." How is my view in contention with the Bible? If it is, I will change my view.

Greg F,

When giving advice of any sort to our young people it should always be based on Biblical values. Yes our children should be taught at a very early age that family is more important than "career, money, looks, fame, and ease of living". They should also be taught that Jesus Christ and His teachings are most important of all. Teaching our children that they should seek to be married at the age of 18 quite often sets that child with a goal of self over God. Not all are meant to be married. Marriage is not necessarily a goal in this earthly life for all Christians.

In your statement you yourself have separated your "advice" as worldly and spiritually. When we advise our young people we need to give them all advice based on Biblical principles. "Marry young because of the physical demands of ones body" is not a Biblical value. That is a worldly value and can lead young Christians to making a mistake because they think they have to run out and get married right away. Marriage is a union that should be thought out carefully, prayed about and joined in only when it is right in God's eyes and in God's time.

The Bible tells us that all we do and say is to be done in His name. This includes all aspects of our lives.

I so agree with this...Christians have been instructed as how to teach their children...to train them in the way they should go that they will not depart from it..even at the age of marriage...when a child is grown it will be what thatr child is taught as to what that child will put to practice in their life...Even if they do not and stray...they will remember the teaching and go back to the source of life which is the word of God...It is the source that many have put down and replaced by books and books that lead many astray.

Sincerely,
Maryjane

To The Young People Reading This Thread,

The Holy Bible contains the perfect instructions for marriage, and I would suggest that you follow them.

Forget about worldly views of marriage. Just look around you and see the results of worldly views on marriage. Forget about my opinion unless it's based on nothing but the Holy Bible. Read the Holy Bible for yourself and check any advice given to you against the Holy Bible.

I will now offer an opinion that is NOT straight from the Holy Bible, so please consider whether it is worth anything at all. I was a police officer for 25 years, and I answered thousands of domestic disturbance calls. Many of those calls involved self-proclaimed Christians, people who went to church every Sunday, and people thought to be pillars of the community. Some of the things involved were alcohol, drugs, adultery, physical abuse, psychological abuse, neglect of children, abuse of children, and just about every negative thing you can dream of happening under a roof that they called a home. The calls were before divorce, during divorce, and after divorce, and none of them could be associated with the word "pleasant" or "Christian". There were children involved in most of them, and the children became victims of various types. The so-called "home" wasn't a "home" at all, just some kind of torture house for the parents and the children.

Brothers and Sisters, there are always innocent victims involved with marriages that are not based on Biblical instructions with CHRIST as the head of a "REAL HOME". The sad truth is that many self-proclaimed Christians run almost as many "torture houses" of marriage these days as the lost do. The reason is already mentioned in this paragraph, and one doesn't need to be very smart to figure it out. There might have been some lust satisfied temporarily, and the rest was misery.

NONE of the above is any secret. This type of misery is all around us, and it would be almost impossible to miss. YET, some still proclaim worldly ways or think that they can improve the Biblical Instructions. They can't, and they are naive and immature in any attempt. The fact is that their attempts aren't helping anyone at all - JUST THE OPPOSITE!

Let me give you a little hint about the real world:  the devil doesn't want you to have a happy marriage! The devil just loves fornication, adultery, alcohol, drugs, beatings, violence, broken vows, broken homes, abuse, neglect, torture, and death.

Young Christians, use your heads and some common sense - STOP LISTENING TO THE WORLD! Read and study your Bibles for the tested, tried, and TRUE instructions for a happy marriage. Don't take anyone else's word for it - study it for yourself! If you have a desire to have a happy marriage in this short life, the ONLY WAY is in the Holy Bible. PRAY, PRAY AGAIN, AND PRAY SOME MORE! Ask GOD for guidance in your choices and decisions. These choices and decisions will have a dramatic impact on your life and everyone around you - including the children of this marriage. Ask your friends and relatives to also PRAY for you during times you are making important decisions.

LASTLY - take any worldly advice you are given and toss it out the window! Put your TRUST in GOD and follow HIS WAYS - NOT MAN'S!

Love In Christ,
Tom


 

I agreed with everything said above in response to my post by Roger and Blackeyedpeas except for one statement I think: 1) "Marry young because of the physical demands of ones body" is not a Biblical value. I cite again 1 Corinthians 7:9 "But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."  I think in this matter, the word of God trumps the view that sexual desire is irrelevant to the decision to marry -- that somehow all Christians can or should be above all sexual passion and the demands of the body -- and I think it no accident that God has created us with that passion strongest in the man in his youth, and for the women she is most able to bear children safely and healthily when the natural consequence of this passion results in a child.  also believe that a young Christian gains a great benefit from dating, in youth, with an eye to marriage and a more serious attitude than the non-believer.

Hello Greg,

It's never wise to isolate one portion of Scripture in the Bible and think you have the whole story. Some folks even take a single Verse out of context and come up with some very strange beliefs that are NOT taught in the Bible. The number of examples of this absolute TRUTH would be countless. I'll leave it at this and say that you need more experience with your Bible. This is a nice way of me putting this.

Greg F,

I agree with blackeyedpeas here. I suggest that you study the entire 7th chapter of 1 Cor and attempt to see the overall idea of this chapter. Not just that one verse. Then compare this with other portions of scripture on this subject.

And of course I fully agree that all verses should be taken in context. We are not an ascetic religion, however.  The Song of Solomon also makes clear that our love and passion for each other in marriage can be favored by God.  The balance is the important thing, and putting God first in our lives, regardless of the pleasures in life that he has granted us.

I believe churches are seriously dealing with not only young marriages...but young people living together...I counsel and I can't even begin to tell you the problems I have sat and listened to and prayed with these couples...Sin is rampant and worse much of th sin that is unacceptable to God is accepted and that is due to so much compromise that the sin is comfortable in the home and in the church...Assurance is veiwed as Insurance and it is so sad to see the children that come out of these marriages...There are homosexuals who claim to be christians who are not only accepted but give testimony before the assembly...In dealing with this...it is money that keeps the sin going...and the lust for the bigger better church that is like a theme park...We do not need to have to "deal" but to "repent"...and repentance is the last word many churches want to preach...it would "offend"....There are also so many churches that do not realize the Spirit has left and all that keeps the church going is the people who attend a social gahtering hearing what will justify their sin....Revival has become an annual event that brings big name people with big name intertainment...What we deal with is not marital problems, sexual immorality..but the acceptance of sin in the camp...If there is anyting we can do..is pray and to go tell the truth of the gospel that will set men free...that will deliver a soul from hell...that is our command from God...

Maryjane

Amen!

AMEN

As a friend of mine would say............  God is not in Heaven saying, "Let's make a deal."  God is in Heaven saying, "This is the deal !!"

Hi Dreamweaver...

That is a great quote...Your friend is wise...

Maryjane, I did not undertand this: "Assurance is veiwed as Insurance and it is so sad to see the children that come out of these marriages..."

What does it mean?

Greg
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Hi Greg...

I love people that ask questions...I learn from them...

Forgive me for not being more clear...in my statement...Assurance is viewed as Insurance...It means that people keep sinning and sinning thinking they have nothing to worry since they at one time said a prayer and never grew from there...People who profess to be christians but do not show fruit..but claim to have accepted God at some point and it is enough...and those who think they have time before death to accept the Lord..

Yes...it is sad to see children come out of marriages these days..I counseled a little girl who told me her mother told her she could chose which gender she wanted to be...and I was surprised as these people attend a local church...There are children that do not even know who their father is or mother from the many men or women their parents live with and in many cases the children are abused and this is where I come in...I counsel the abused...and I was told not to mention the Lord...but God is gracious as I have never been caught and even if I am...it is worth the price...I realize I cannot mention cases...but the cases are the same...people living without hope....but there is hope...and we can tell them...

Sincerely...

Maryjane

Amen, sister. It is difficult in many situations today to do just that. Teachers, counsellors, and many more are being silenced from using the truth to help the lost and ailing. I thank God that I am not in such a position and as of yet have not had anyone try to silence me. Our children need the Lord's help to make it through such a sin filled world that we are in today.

Dear Pastor...

What you say is true...but I made the choice not to be silent...and I know the ones I have spoken to wer open to the gospel and it is only God who has kept me where I am...I know sometime I might get caught but it's worth it...as I know the Lord will open another door in which I can be used...

I had suffered a stroke and for awhile..could not counsel...I had broken the side of my face through the fall and my doctor was surprised my eye did not stay in the socket...I cracked my ribs and you know..I healed quickly and it is only the Lord and the fantastic  part about it is that my job waited for me..and again gave me opportunity to speak to people that I felt led to speak to...You know...I had a heard time at first with memory...but God let me know how His word is imprinted on my heart...and I was so amazed by how quickly healing came to me...

Pastor...I am so thankful to be in this forum...I believe with all my heart the Lord has given us a precious gift by giving the saints to encourage one another...especially in these times...Even though it will not get better as far as the world goes...Heaven shines even brighter...each and every day reminds me..We will see Him face to face and that is really all I look for...We who are called are so blessed and how can we not want the same for a dying world...

I am glad to be here in this forum...

Sincerely...

Maryjane

I am glad that you are here also, sister.

Brothers and Sisters,

It's very sad to see what's happening in many of our churches and in our society. Many of our churches are little more than business corporations trying to make money by making people feel good about their sin. In fact, many of the churches are now being run by the devil. Many who wallow in the bottom of the pit in darkness are now standing behind the pulpits. It really doesn't matter how big the church is, how many people attend, how fancy things are, or anything else of this world. What matters is the full-strength WORD of GOD being preached, regardless of which toes are stepped on.

Many churches and many self-proclaimed Christians have stopped doing the LORD'S WORK. The world doesn't like to be told about sin, and many in the world are unable to sit under the sound doctrine of the HOLY BIBLE. The HOLY BIBLE tells what is right and wrong, and good or sin. The BIBLE doesn't mince words and tip-toe through the tulips like the world wants. The BIBLE calls sin "SIN", and it's supposed to convict people of wrong. The BIBLE tells people what GOD likes and what GOD hates. What people like and want is NOT a consideration for the HOLY BIBLE, and it never has been. Further, the HOLY BIBLE warns those who will call good "evil" - or call EVIL "good".

I'm very sad to say that many churches are now little more than places for entertainment. Many so-called Christians are in the same business, and it's becoming hard to tell who they serve - GOD or the devil.

I will put things very bluntly. For a Christian, the THINGS OF GOD are the only priority. The THINGS OF GOD are the teachings from the HOLY BIBLE - HIS WORD. Bluntly - the wants and desires of man are usually the opposite of what GOD wants. BUT, many Christians and churches are more interested in catering to the wants and desires of man than they are in serving GOD. After all, being popular and making men happy pays the bills and BUILDS HUGE churches. BIBLE Prophecy tells us there will be a time when men won't be able to tolerate the sound doctrine of the HOLY BIBLE, and that time appears to be here.

Brothers and Sisters, the secrets of happiness for a Christian in this short life are in the HOLY BIBLE, so they aren't any secret. As an individual, I could care less what men want - I care what GOD wants. I could also care less about being popular, specifically if it means any compromise with the HOLY BIBLE. What I want to do is very simple:

1 - Share the full-strength TRUTH of the HOLY BIBLE.

2 - Run a good race.

3 - Fight a good fight.

4 - Finish my course.

5 - AND, one day hopefully hear, "Well done good and faithful servant."

For those who don't recognize the above, they are the wishes of Paul, and Paul wanted all Glory to go to GOD for all things. Every Christian should have these same desires. This life is very short, and we only have one shot at it. This is not our home, and this short life is NOT what we were designed for. HINT: We were designed for Eternity, and there will be an Eternity for each and every one of us in either Heaven or the fires of hell. What our CREATOR Wants for us in this short life should be the end of the story - PERIOD! BUT, many men will deny HIM completely, and many more will think that they know better than the CREATOR what is good and right for them to do.

Brothers and Sisters, Christians should simply get to doing the FATHER'S BUSINESS - HIS WAY! In the end, nothing else will matter. RIGHT NOW AND REALISTICALLY, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:26-27 NASB  In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Galatians 2:19-21 NASB  "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 4:7-8 NASB  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Romans 8:28 NASB  And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Romans 12:1-2 NASB  Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Sister

I second the thoughts of Pastor Roger. YES - we are very happy to have you with us. Christians are living in increasingly difficult times. GOD did give us fellowship to encourage each other and strengthen each other in CHRIST. This old world is going downhill almost like a runaway train. Christians won't be able to stop the train, but we are supposed to work on the train until GOD takes over. I have a feeling that time will be soon.

In the meantime - KEEP LOOKING UP!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 31:19 NASB  How great is Your goodness, Which You have stored up for those who fear You, Which You have wrought for those who take refuge in You, Before the sons of men!

1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 NASB  But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Add a third to P.R.'s I've enjoyed all your posts Maryjane.  I'm glad you joined us here at, Christians Unite forum.

I think I'll work on a sermon for next week, on marriage.  Just as a reminder to my Church.

Hi Blackeyedpea...

Thank you for this post...as I read it..I had tears due to the reality of the condition of the churches...I think it has been very hard to say there is a problem in the body due to the verse "Touch not mine annointed"..it is used to justify the false teachings on TV..but..there will come atime when it will crumble before their very eyes and the conviction will come...and some will reject...for the lust for money and immorality is high...So...we pray and we go where ever the Spirit sends in Jesus name..

Sincerely,

Maryjane

Hello MaryJane,

Sister, you hit the nail on the head. Praying and going to do whatever we are called to do is HIS WAY. This is our Joy, regardless of what the task is - big or small - easy or difficult. GOD has a reason for everything. I was just thinking again about a wonderful Promise from GOD - HIS WORD will never return void. HIS WORD will accomplish HIS PURPOSE. We might never know the final results of what we were sent to do, but GOD does, and GOD is in charge. HE does whatever HE Wills in heaven and on earth. These are absolute FACTS, and they are beautiful.

The rest of the thought is the happiest Christians are the ones most yielded to GOD in all things. Simply, they Trust HIM and Obey HIM. I'm not hinting that I fit this description, but I think that all Christians should strive for this description. We probably all know someone who might come close to this description. Typically, they are happy all of the time - they don't seem to worry about much - and there is a sweetness about them that is uplifting to anyone who crosses their path. They also manage to tell others the complete TRUTH from the BIBLE and try to give GOD all of the Glory in all things. There is only one way for a person to accomplish all of these things at the same time: yielded completely with GOD working in and through them. These are things we can pray for.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:4 NASB  Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice!

Dreamweaver...Do you post your sermons?...just wondering...

I normally don't, I can though if I remember to bring it home.  I've posted a few of my sermons, in the past.

Though I may not be able to, cause of a wildfire not far away from me.  With wind gusts up to 70 miles per hour, they lost control of the fire. But we are not under evaculation orders yet. :D

Brother,

I'll be praying for you and your neighbors. It hasn't been that long ago that we also went through wildfires, but recent floods have made everything too wet to catch fire. So, we seem to be going through extremes. We have had wind gusts up to 50 mph several times in the last several days, but that's fairly normal for Oklahoma.

Brother, if the fires start getting close, don't play Julie Andrews and sit there singing "The Hills Are Alive With The Sound Of Music", LEAVE! Let's see - that is the song of the MOUNTAIN MAN - Right?   ;D

I am praying for you Dreamweav and your family.....Wildfires are terrible...we get them here in Texas...The weather changes on a dime here and it was cold today with high wind and later in the day..it became so hot with high wind...We do not have floods but I live in Tornado Alley...
The reason I asked abut your sermons is that on the left of the page it says Audio sermons...so I wondered if you posted yours...

Ummm...Do you hear someone in the background singing the hills are alive?.. ::)

No the song of mountain men ::) is, "Bye Bye Love."  Remember I was here for the Rodeo-Chediski fire in june 2002.  In fact I think it was just about this date, the Rodeo-Chediski fire started.

Don't worry brother, the trailer is packed hooked up to the truck. The truck gassed up, ready to go.  All that needs packing are the animals, meds, and us.  Lizzie will take my car, her car will be put in the pasture.  It's a gas guzzler, 12 miles to a gallon.

Course I always have the trailer re-packed every year, in March.  Theres water, tents, ice chests, animal food, important papers, and pictures.

Thank you sister for your prayers.  When I post sermons I post them on the forum.

No I hear "Bye Bye Love" cause I love the area I live in. Though that won't hold a candle to what Jesus has promised us.

LOL ..... 



Never lonely nor empty with the Lord at your side. My prayers with all within the area of that fire.


We get both here but no wildfires to speak of. We do get an occasional bad grass fire out in the country.

We are getting the high winds today also and a high of 92 degrees. 50 mph winds today and tonight. Yesterday it was 45mph winds. They have already posted a tornado watch for later this evening and tonight.

Well we just got great news, a few minutes ago.  The wildfire they managed to control, about 3:00 am this morning.  Four hours of clam winds helped (I'm looking up, praying a big thank you Lord.) No structures were lost except for land, grass and trees. 

Brother,

Thanks for the great news. You will still be in our prayers.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Galatians 4:4-6 NASB  But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

That is great news.

That is great news...

Any marriage based on one's sexual desires will fail when the sex gets old, or someone more exciting comes along. Teens marrying rather than commit fornication is a poor reason to tie the knot. They should be taught that morality is right in God's eyes and immorality is wrong.

Anyone who promotes gay marriage..is calling God a liar of his word when he created man and woman his creation is perfect.It is man who is not perfect..It is the sin of man that makes God's creation distorted...We are  born in sin..until one finds the Lord...they continue to live in sin and continue to go by their own feeble judgements that bring death..Those who call themselves christian homosexuals and those who promote homosexuality are lost and are not part of the body of Christ but are given through God's mercy a Savior that if they come believing in Jesus...they will be set free from sin and in reading the Word of God will know what is acceptable to God...until then...they walk in darkness that leads to ..mentally, physical and eternal death...

A "man" one time propositioned me and wanted me as his new boyfriend. The conversation went something like, Him: "Well, you know I'm gay." Me: "I suspected something like that." Him: "I believe I was born this way." Me: "I've always thought that qu--rs have a severe mental disorder." Him: Haven't you ever wondered what it would be like with another man?" Me: "No." Him: "A lot of straight guys do." Me: "They can't be very straight if they do." Him: "I believe that God accepts me as I am." Me: "Yes, He says to come unto Him just as you are, and He will make you a new creature."  Him: "I'm very disappointed." Me: No answer to that. I was just happy to disappoint him.

The reason for that conversation was that he had a very nice apartment in a decent neighborhood with reasonable rent. I found out why the rent was so reasonable after that conversation and when he said, "You can have the run of my home, and I'll cook for you." I didn't rent the apartment. I was afraid I'd wake up some morning and find him in bed next to me. :o

Brothers and Sisters,

This is an increasingly sad and evil world that we live in. I've said this before, but I'll say it again, "Things are getting worse by the minute." The sewers are overflowing everywhere, and it's hard to get away from the stench of this world. For Christians, I just give thanks that this world isn't our home and we are just passing through. Great hosts will suffer in the stench for eternity, but JESUS CHRIST will take us far away from it forever.

THANKS BE UNTO GOD FOR HIS UNSPEAKABLE GIFT, JESUS CHRIST, OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR FOREVER!

Love In Christ,
Tom

The church should not be "promoting" marriage at all.  A couple who want to marry should consult GOD before they take that step to determine if it's HIS will for them.  The reason the divorce rate is as high among Christians as it is in the rest of the community is because many Christians decide to marry without consulting God FIRST.  Getting married in a church does not make it God's marriage.  And illicit sex will not be cured by encouraging marriage but by better parenting.

Amen Chaplain Bob!

Brother, it's great to hear from you. We've been missing you.

I feel the same way about this issue as you do. Some would call us out of touch with mainstream thinking, and that would be true. However, I could care less what mainstream thinking is. Mainstream thinking these days is mainly worldly thinking, and worldly thinking is the cause of many of our worst problems we face today. The first examples I think about are broken homes and societies running away from GOD. Talking about Biblical morals many times makes people look at us like we're out of our mind. There has been a horrible price for worldly thinking, and the price is getting worse by the day.

Further, GOD sees everything. People can choose to live like the world and disobey GOD, but nothing is hidden from GOD. GOD still knows all and sees all. Biblical thinking, prayer, and asking GOD about HIS Will for us would eliminate a lot of pain, disappointment, and torture in this short life. YES - I said "torture". Many bad decisions do result in torture. There isn't any irony that GOD'S Ways are the best for us, and this is the way to be happy in this short life.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Amen Brother Bob. 

Another Amen.