JEHOVAH WITNESSES

[Shammu]

Piusx, you will find we are willing to help you, in your footsteps to Christ. But again, you must make that first step on your own. We can't help you on that, I guarantee your life will change, for the better. Sister Maria, has told you already how, to come to Christ. My own is a little different but the meaning is the same.

Lord Jesus, I am a sinner not worthy of your Love. Lord Jesus, I believe that you died on the cross for me and I ask you to come into my heart as my Lord and Saviour. Lord Jesus, I ask forgiveness for my sins and ask to follow you as the Lord of my life. In the name of my Lord, Jesus Christ, I pray.
Amen.

[Soldier4Christ]

This is the debate section but Jesus Christ being the rock and the foundation of the church is not a debateable subject. The Bible is quite clear on this.

The following verses shows us that Jesus Christ is the rock, the foundation that the church is built on, not Peter.

Psa 62:5  My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
Psa 62:6  He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.
Psa 62:7  In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.

Mat 7:24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Act 4:10  Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11  This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Is your salvation built upon a church or a man or is it built upon Jesus Christ?

Paul gave a warning to people that were doing as you are doing.

1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Which is what the catholic church is doing by saying I am of Peter.

[airIam2worship]

Pious, let do this,  let's leave Peter out of the picture for now. Ok??

Now. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son og God?

[airIam2worship]

is you answered yes to the first question I asked, now ask yourself this question.

Do you believe that Jesus died for you sins?

Do you believe that the only one who could wash all your sins away is the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ?

[colonel]

I am impressed with the background study you have done on the JW's. I would like to find out where this information was obtained.  I have several friends that are Jehovah Witnesses and I have discussed at length the scripture to them. although the research you have done here is astonishing. Please let me know how I may obtain a copy of this.

Thank You In Jesus Name

[nChrist]

with all due respect Pastor I am not buying into your interpretation. this is because I am stupid and get hung up on what the bible actually says. I have read your previous post and to me they sound evasive. I am in the debate forum arn't I?

Jesus oppointed Peter head of the Church on earth and then Peter acknowledged the divinity of Jesus and Then Jesus said lets keep that hush hush for now.

Thou art Peter(rock) Upon this rock I will build my church. We get lots of words from Peter. Petroleum, Petreglyph saltpeter. Believe me when I tell you Peter is the Greek word rock.

Hello piusx,

If you will check the derivation more closely, you will find "Peter" to mean small stone, not rock. It would also be helpful for you to read this area of Scripture again. Within a few Verses, you will find JESUS telling Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan". JESUS CHRIST is the only foundation for the One True Church, and the One True Church is not a Church made with human hands. The One True Church is THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Peter was just a man and that's all he ever was. Placing your faith and trust in Peter or any other man gets you absolutely NOTHING. The Law of Faith in JESUS CHRIST is the only thing that will set you free from the curse of sin and death.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 10:3-4 NASB  For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[ggamble]

Greetings,
 
 Just a few views I believe of Peter:

                                                 Point 1
Peter was just a man, we all can relate to him, we have all probably had a season as he did. Some say he backslid when he denied Him, in all we find that Peter did in the  Bible, there were times he was  making mistakes. Which we all can relate too!
Your notice in these next passages here that Jesus told them to go and tell His disciples that He had risen, you'll notice He pointed out Peter.
   
Lam 3:22-23 Lam 3:22  It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lam 3:23  They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
 
Could you image how Peter must have been feeling, it is written in legend that Peter broke into tears everytime he heard a rooster crow. The Lord knew how His friend was feeling,  that's why he pointed him out.

Mar 16:6  And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Mar 16:7  But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
                                                   Point 2
Act 2:1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Peter being the rock, that started on the day of Pentecost, I believe.

Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42  And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This was the foundation of when the Church was born, James headed the Church in Jerusalem.
The Word does not say anyone was a "Pope".  The same is what has been said about this issue, but this is what I believe happened and why he was called the rock, the first stone laid was at the day of Pentecost.
Peter preached and 3000 were saved and baptized, the Church began. Jesus is the foundation of the one true Church, the rest of us are the Church body, no matter their office.

Only Always for Jesus
in the love of a brother
ggamble

[Soldier4Christ]

Mat 16:15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19  And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


This portion of scripture has been an area of great contention. It has led to many misconceptions that has led people away from following Jesus Christ and into following men. This misconception is in the meaning of the Greek word Petros. Many people, even theologians have interpreted it to mean Rock. Thereby in their eyes they believe that Jesus is calling Peter the Rock. If we look at this in closer detail we find that the word Petros (Peter in English translations) means stone not rock and it was used by the people of those days as a sort of pun meaning a moveable stone or in todays terms a "rolling stone". This is also seen in non-Biblical Greek writings such as Heracletes who uses it in the phrase "leave no stone(petros) unturned".

When we look at the verses surrounding verse 18 we also see that Jesus is referring to a question that Jesus asked "whom say ye that I am?" and in Peters answer "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" when He says "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

In verse 18 we also see the word rock in English. This word was petra in the original Greek which means  a mass of rock, a large rock. The word petra was used consistently throughout scripture when referring to Jesus or to a foundation/cornerstone of a building not the word petros.
Verses in which petra was used:

Mat 7:24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock (petra):
Mat 7:25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock (petra).
 

Luk 6:48  He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock(petra): and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock (petra).

Luk 8:6  And some fell upon a rock(petra); and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock(petra) that followed them: and that Rock(petra) was Christ.


When comparing these verses, especially the one in 1Cor 10:4 to that of Mat 16:18 we can plainly see that Jesus was talking of Himself as being the foundation of the church.


We can also tell from the following verses that Jesus did not put one Apostle over another but rather considered them all of equal importance to the future church:


Luk 9:46  Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
Luk 9:47  And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
Luk 9:48  And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.


Luk 22:26  But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
Luk 22:27  For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

[BLAD]

with all due respect Pastor I am not buying into your interpretation. this is because I am stupid and get hung up on what the bible actually says. I have read your previous post and to me they sound evasive. I am in the debate forum arn't I?

Jesus oppointed Peter head of the Church on earth and then Peter acknowledged the divinity of Jesus and Then Jesus said lets keep that hush hush for now.

Thou art Peter(rock) Upon this rock I will build my church. We get lots of words from Peter. Petroleum, Petreglyph saltpeter. Believe me when I tell you Peter is the Greek word rock.

piusx, don't you know that Paul was the one who reach the gentiles (non-Jews)? that is why your church (roaman catholic church) use or adopt the name of Paul on most pope.

so don't you think Paul is your (roman catholic church) rock?

What i am saying here is that GOD uses men (Peter, Paul, Timothy) to reach people but we should not worship them?

Below is what Paul did when the Lyconian people tried to worship him in Acts 14

11: And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
   12: And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
   13: Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
   14: Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
   15: And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:   16: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
   17: Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness

Now ask yourself, who established the church GOD or men?  Who we should worship GOD or men?

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen BLAD,

Also the church at Corinth people were saying "I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ".

Paul told them then "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

[Shammu]

Add another AMEN BLAD!

[airIam2worship]

piusx, don't you know that Paul was the one who reach the gentiles (non-Jews)? that is why your church (roaman catholic church) use or adopt the name of Paul on most pope.

so don't you think Paul is your (roman catholic church) rock?

What i am saying here is that GOD uses men (Peter, Paul, Timothy) to reach people but we should not worship them?

Below is what Paul did when the Lyconian people tried to worship him in Acts 14

11: And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
   12: And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
   13: Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
   14: Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
   15: And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:   16: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
   17: Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness

Now ask yourself, who established the church GOD or men?  Who we should worship GOD or men?

AMEN Blad. You made a very good point.

[BLAD]

AMEN Blad. You made a very good point.

Glory to GOD coz' he gives us wisdom to understand.  I praise him also coz' he let me find this site and learned a lot.

And i know now that there are a lot of Christian that are standing firm on their faith.  and i found a palce to find here those Christians.

Fight the good fight Christian warriors. GOD is with us.

[Shammu]

Piusx, is no longer here, as he proved that he was a troublemaker. He wanted to futher, and push his own agenda.

Moderator

[airIam2worship]

Piusx, is no longer here, as he proved that he was a troublemaker. He wanted to futher, and push his own agenda.

Moderator

Somehow I knew he wouldn't be around very long. like I said the newbies that don't even introduce themselves and just jump right into a post with both feet in their mouth are ususally troublemakers, that don't stay long. Either because they can't handle the truth or they just get banned for breaking the rules.