[nor observe times.]

We are no longer under the law, Judaism, but this is what God thinks of phychics and astrology. It is not of Him. We are to look to Him for our wisdom. He is our future.


Leviticus 19:26neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. ASTROLOGY

31: Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6: And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul,

27: A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

[While Jesus died to cover our sins, and the sin that we did abide in before coming to Christ are covered and forgiven at the moment of belief and salvation,]

Posted by Berean

So, I get things straight in the beginning and have nothing taken wrong, I am assuming you are stating that first off:
We can lose our salvation.
There is absoloutly no assurance of salvation until we die.
We are to obey the commandmants for salvation.
We are to be perfect.
We are under the law.
There is more...but this will due for now.
Thanks for your time.

With all due respect, Berean, but your comments here indicate that you did not bother to read (with understanding) the scriptures and comments I posted.

Example:you said: "So, I get things straight in the beginning and have nothing taken wrong, I am assuming you are stating that first off:
We can lose our salvation."

whereas I had posted "John specifies that he is writing so that the readers will "know that ye have eternal life..." and "Failure to seek forgiveness and to repent does not destroy or abrogate our salvation,..."

So how do you get I'm stating we can lose salvation?

In addition, your other comments also don't fit at all with what was posted.

It appears at this point that you not only don't rightly divide the Word of God, but you can't even rightly discern or understand a clear, concise and unequivocal statement made by someone else, preferring instead to twist into something it is not.

Obviously, you not only didn't get things straight from the beginning, but you have taken everything wrong, and made false assumptions.

Certainly not very "berean-ish".

Read this part of your post again. I will break it down for you.

He also deals pointedly with the ever-present problem of sin. While Jesus died to cover our sins, and the sin that we did abide in before coming to Christ are covered and forgiven at the moment of belief and salvation,

 the sins that we commit afterward are "set aside", or forgiven ONLY when we ask forgiveness for them...

Looks like one can lose their salvation to me if they do not ask. NO ONE can enter Heaven without having their sins forgiven.

ALL sin is forgiven the moment one believes. The law has been set aside...we are not under the law but under grace, therefore we shall not be judge by the law. There is not one transgression for the believer.

Here is the Word of God, Romans 4:14,15

14: For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Thank you Big D and Brother Love.

That was an excellent explanation of I, II, and III John you gave Big D. I know it will help those of us who know the Word rightly divided to be able to understand that we are to use any books from Hebrews through Revelation, just as we use the Gospels or the Old Testament. All may be for us...BUT, they are not to us, the Body of Christ.

Therefore we must be very careful in the verses we chose to use, and read the former and latter verses to be sure we can use them for the Body of Christ.

I only started this thread because I have seen so many verses posted by folks who I believe know the Word rightly divided, and are using verses from these books which are putting the Body of Christ under law. I think it is quite by accident and not realizing what the verses are actually saying.

I have meant this thread in the spirit of love and hope it was taken as such. If I correct someone on using a verse it is only because I want them to know so they can grow in God's Word and have the knowledge and joy of how to rightly divide His Word. And also...so that others will know the truth. If verses from the books of John and others are left without a comment, some may begin to place themselves under the law because of those books and verses. That is why knowing how to rightly divide God's Word is so very important.

Again, this was meant in the spirit of love...God bless.

Thanks for your time and thanks again Big D for the great post...

The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ. Many who know how to rightly divide use some verses from these books but fail to notice what verses go with them them.

1 John, while written "generically" and not to a specific group (ie: church or town), is a letter to those who ARE redeemed, meaning the Body of Christ (church) in general.

Several things point to this, but most pointedly:
Ch. 2:18, where John makes ref. to the antichrist to come, vs. 19 where he speaks of those who have left the "fold", and why, and vs. 20 where he specifies that those to whom he is writing have received the Holy Ghost (an unction). In vs. 22 he specifies that those who deny Jesus as messiah are antichrist (would he say that to the Jews?), and in vs. 24 exhorts to "continue" in the Son.


While these three books are written primarily to combat the growing gnostic heresy, there are certain other characteristics and instructions that show up. In Ch. 5, vs 13 John specifies that he is writing so that the readers will "know that ye have ete4rnal life...", which would not be possible for the non-messianic Jew.

He also deals pointedly with the ever-present problem of sin. While Jesus died to cover our sins, and the sin that we did abide in before coming to Christ are covered and forgiven at the moment of belief and salvation, the sins that we commit afterward are "set aside", or forgiven ONLY when we ask forgiveness for them...an act of acknowledgment of our error, and repentence (or turning away) from that, whatever it was. Failure to seek forgiveness and to repent does not destroy or abrogate our salvation, but it most assuredly INTERRUPTS our communion with Him, and our usefullness in the Kingdom.

2 John is basically a continuation, although written to a specific person (the elect lady) and children, who apparently are being troubled by others. John continues to clarify the error of gnosticism and false teachers, and points out the specific ways in which a believer can "judge fruit."

3 John is written to a person named Gaius, and is probably the same Gaius mentioned in one of the Pauline epistles, and is an elder in a church. That he is definitely a believer is reinforced in 1:6, where Gaius is praised for the "witness of thy charity before the church:"

Considering that during the early years of the church (the first 40 or so) that vast majority of the church members were Jews who converted, or Messianic....is this what you mean by "Kingdom Jews"?

Those of us who rightly divide should be very careful when choosing verses from books that are not addressed to the Body of Christ. Every book after the book of Philemon, that is from Hebrews on...is not addressed to the Body of Christ.

Yes...it would be good to be very careful....especially when making blanket statements such as the above.

So, I get things straight in the beginning and have nothing taken wrong, I am assuming you are stating that first off:

We can lose our salvation.

There is absoloutly no assurance of salvation until we die.

We are to obey the commandmants for salvation.

We are to be perfect.

We are under the law.

There is more...but this will due for now.
Thanks for your time.

[for where no law is, there is no transgression.]

The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ. Many who know how to rightly divide use some verses from these books but fail to notice what verses go with them them.

As we know we are not under the law, not saved by keeping the commandments, and our sins are already forgiven us in Christ the moment we believed.

If one will carefully read over I John they will see that this is a book which is under law. It is written to the Kingdom Jews.  I had always taken it as the book of "love" and had read it as so, just because I was trained to do so. It is amazing the verses I had underlined and the ones I chose to ignore because they did not go with grace. They troubled me...but I figured they fit in some how. But they don't. Those of us who rightly divide should be very careful when choosing verses from books that are not addressed to the Body of Christ. Every book after the book of Philemon, that is from Hebrews on...is not addressed to the Body of Christ.

From I John: (there are many more troubling verses...I am just listing these)

I John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (We were already forgiven of all sin by the crosswork of Christ, when we believed)

3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Paul tells us:


Galations 4:14 14: For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16: Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace;

Thank You.Good Insight.

Thank you. God bless!

[Washing.1.Washed Heart.Jeremiah 4:14.---Separation.2.washed Face.Matthew 6:17.-----Fasting.3.washed Feet.John 13:14.------Service.4.Washed Clothes.Exodus 19:10.---Sanctification.5.washed Eyes.John 9:15.------Seeing.6.washed Stripes.Acts 16:13.----Sympathy.7.Washed Church.Ephesian 5:26.---Cleansing.]

        Washing.

1.Washed Heart.Jeremiah 4:14.---Separation.

2.washed Face.Matthew 6:17.-----Fasting.

3.washed Feet.John 13:14.------Service.

4.Washed Clothes.Exodus 19:10.---Sanctification.

5.washed Eyes.John 9:15.------Seeing.

6.washed Stripes.Acts 16:13.----Sympathy.

7.Washed Church.Ephesian 5:26.---Cleansing.

Would you elaborate a little on what you were trying to bring out here? Just a commentary. I would appreciate it. Thank you.

[also trusted]

Ten Conditions to recieve The Holy Spirit.
1.Prayer.
Lk 11:13.If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

2.Desire.
Jn 7:37.In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

3.Faith.
Jn 7:39.(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


4.Forgiveness.
Acts 2;38.Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5.Obedience.
Acts 5:32.And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

6.Waiting .
Luke 24:49.And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

7.Through Anointed preaching.
Acts 11:15-16.And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

8.Know God well.
I Thess 4;8.He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

9.Laying Hands.
Acts 8;17.Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

10.Know Jesus well.
Mark 1;8.I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Give Thanks to The Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only one condition...that you believe.

Eppesians 1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14: Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

To come to know the Word rightly divided is to know the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ. Today it is believe and no works. It is not through baptisim and laying on of hands that the Holy Spirit is recieved. There is only one baptism today and that is by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. I Cor. 12:13

13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Henry's question was...


Brother,

Isn't the issue more about church 'choosing'?

See, that's my problem. How does one choose the 'right' church? Which practices in a particular church can one overlook? Do we have to be in 100% agreement?

If I believe that baptism is not a necessary ordinance does that keep from attending every Baptist church (or any church that baptizes for that matter)? Does that make me Quaker?

As a dispensationalist I could never attend a Covenant Reformed/Presbyterian Church for I would never hear the dispensationalist truth preached.

So how does one choose...do I church-hop until I find the right one? That dosen't appear to be be practical or spiritually helpful....Is there a future in home-churches? Anabaptists without local congregations will sometimes meet that way.

Just some random thoughts...but darn..YOU got me thinking!

Appreciate any clarification you might be able to provide.

Regards,
Henry (looking for community of faith)


What do you think one should do? What do you do?

["Grace & Peace"]

Thanks BigD and Berean, you both have made my day.

"Grace & Peace"

Brother Love

<))><

Brother Love..I have been reading your posts for some
time...Awesome!

Good to see Big D here with his very imfomative posts. More people are needed like this man! Hope to see more of him.

I was here a few months ago...I will be back now more often.

God bless!

Berean_ Please stay with us I LOVE You Man

Please Check Out and add some web-sites and studies

MY FAVORITE WEB-SITES AND STUDIES

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=1563;start=0

"GRACE & PEACE"

Your friend and brother

Brother Love


<))><

Thanks for directing me to the thread! I got caught up in the study on baptism...great!

I have a lot of Stam's and Sadler's books...everyone should    Have you ever read any of Joel Finck's books?

Great reading your posts and so many others here.  Thanks!

[Thanks to Jesus who died for all our Sins]

Thanks to Jesus who died for all our Sins ALL sins PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE
<))><

While I totally, with my whole heart believe this statement, I feel this ignoring Henry's honest question. I am not in the least trying to cause any kind of problems, but I notice his question is always skirted over. I think it is a good question that many people are having a problem with today.

What do you think one should do? What do you do?

Thanks and God bless...

Amen Brother Love!!

[CHURCH-GOING]

CHURCH-GOING

By Cornelius R. Stam

There is an important passage on church-going in He-
brews 10:23-25:

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering....
And let us consider one another, to provoke unto love and to good works; not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is... "

Brother,

Isn't the issue more about church 'choosing'?

See, that's my problem. How does one choose the 'right' church? Which practices in a particular church can one overlook? Do we have to be in 100% agreement?

If I believe that baptism is not a necessary ordinance does that keep from attending every Baptist church (or any church that baptizes for that matter)? Does that make me Quaker?

As a dispensationalist I could never attend a Covenant Reformed/Presbyterian Church for I would never hear the dispensationalist truth preached.

So how does one choose...do I church-hop until I find the right one? That dosen't appear to be be practical or spiritually helpful....Is there a future in home-churches? Anabaptists without local congregations will sometimes meet that way.

Just some random thoughts...but darn..YOU got me thinking!

Appreciate any clarification you might be able to provide.

Regards,
Henry (looking for community of faith)

The book of Hebrews is written to just that...the Hebrews.

Nowhere does Paul command a believer to attend a church building. The church is the Body of Christ and as such true believers are all united one to another. Assembling together with other believers is uplifting, and I do desire it, but I can do that in a variety of ways.

I am with Henry...there is no way I can sit through a church service where the truth is not taught. What am I learning? I have found that only strife is caused when I present what I believe. It is better to find those outside of the church and perhaps start a church, then to try and change a pastor's mind or anyone in a church.

Maybe an ad in your newspaper may bring others of the same beliefs together to start a meeting in someone's home. I know where I live there are enough people for meeting, but no home to accomadate that, and no money to keep up the rent for a bldg. So we wait on God.

Home churches seem to be on the rise these days as more and more churches turn away from God's Word.

Churches are a good place to learn the Word of God and to fellowship. But you are not out of God's will by not going to one. Today we have many means of learning God's Word. His Word is readily available to us...which wasn't the case in Paul's time. Everyone didn't have a copy of the Scriptures, so they would have to gather to hear it read and gather to hear preaching or teaching.

We have many places on the internet to read articles from good teachers of God's Word. We can fellowship on the internet, lead others to the Lord and to learning the Word rightly divided on the internet...all which I have done. I have had some of the best fellowship ever over the internet...laughed till tears were coming down my cheeks and had some of the most serious discussions about the Lord ever. I have made good friends which I have gone to meet in person.

I think church choosing is the most important, not church going.

God bless...

This is your invitation to    
Hear the Word of God...Rightly Divided    
   
To Hear    
   
"So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"    



Romans 10:17    



   



"In Whom (Christ) ye also trusted, having heard the Word of Truth..."    
Ephesians 1:13    
   
The Word Of God    
   



"For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two - edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner (critic) of the thoughts and intents of the heart"    



Hebrews 4:12    



   
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (God breathed) and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect (complete) thoroughly furnished unto all good works"    



2 Timothy 3:16, 17    
   



Rightly Divided    
   



"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth"    



2 Timothy 2:15    




God's Message for This Age Teaches    



   
1. The total depravity of man - "There is none righteous, no not one." "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"    



Romans 3:10, 23    



   
                                                                                                2. The all - sufficiency of the work of Christ on the cross - "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died "FOR" the ungodly." "But God commendeth His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died "FOR" us." Much more then, having been justified by His Blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him"    



Romans 5: 6, 8, 9    
   
   



"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testifiedi n due time"    



1 Timothy 2:5, 6    
   
   



"For He hath made Him (Christ) to be sin for us, Who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him"    



  2 Corinthians 5:21                                                                                              
   
   



3. The simple means of salvation - "For by Grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast"    



Ephesians 2:8, 9    
   



   



"Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"    



Romans 5:1    
   



My sole purpose, is to help others fully understand the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24). And as the Apostle Paul, my goal is that many might attain "unto all the riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God" (Colossians 2:1) And I hope to give clear teachings on all the following:    
   
1. The distinctiveness of the revelation given by the Glorified Lord to the Apostle Paul for this age.......................................GALATIANS 1:11, 12    
a. Called the Gospel of the Grace of God..............ACTS 20:24    
b. Hidden in other ages, called the Mystery or secret....EPHESIANS 3:1 - 9    
c. Completes the Word of God...............................COLOSSIANS 1:24 - 26    
   

2. The oneness of all true believers in Jesus Christ.    
a.  There is one body................................................ROMANS 12:4, 5    
b.  Baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.................1 CORINTHIANS 12:13    
c.  The seven - fold unity (oneness) of the Spirit.......EPHESIANS 4:3 - 6        
 
   
   
3. The perfect standing of every true believer in Jesus Christ.    
a.  Accepted in Christ................................................EPHESIANS 1:6    
b.  Seated in the Heavenlies.....................................EPHESIANS 2:6    
c.  Complete in Christ................................................COLOSSIANS 2:9, 10  
   



   



   
4. The joyful responsibilities of every true believer in Jesus Christ.    
a.  To God:    
    ...to glorify Him..................................................1 CORINTHIANS 6:19, 20    
    ...to be a faithful steward...................................1 CORINTHIANS 4:1, 2    
    ...to proclaim God's message...2 CORINTHIANS 5:19, 20; EPHESIANS 3:9    
   

   
b.  To one another:    
    ...to love the brethren.........................................................ROMANS 12:10;    



EPHESIANS 4:32, COLOSSIANS 3:12 - 14    



    ...to serve the brethren...................................................GALATIANS 5:13    
   
   
c.  To the world:    
    ...to manifest the love of Christ....................................ROMANS 12:17-21    
    ...to proclaim the Gospel of the Grace of God................ROMANS 3:24, 25;    



1 CORINTHIANS 15:3, 4      


Posted By Ambassador4Christ on another thread.
Re-Posted By The Crusader
 

Amen! I beleive this also....

Berean posted:

Sorry Big D...As good as anyone's intentions are, you may never get that book back. If it means something to you...do not loan it out. Things happen sometimes Big D...you could lose it, so if you are going to loan it out...loan it out with the attitude you are actually giving it away so that you will not be disappointed if it is not returned.

I am not a pessimist ...but a realist.

You are certainly a good hearted man!

Berean:
I have loaned Pastor Stam"s books our for years. In fact I have ordered 3 complete sets of his books because they just never came back.

This book is one that I probably wouldn't be able to replace, but I have read it, enjoyed it and believe others would enjoy it also. So If I never get it back, I only hope the last one to read it will "loan" it out to another.

Maybe you would like to read it.

Like I have said before: "I may have been born at night, but it surely wasn't last night.

God Bless.

Big D said>>>Like I have said before: "I may have been born at night, but it surely wasn't last night.

LOL...no it surely wasn't...

Henry:
I am SORRY if I interrupted your day. That was not my intent at all.

Also, I was also water baptized as an infant. I do not recall that it did anyfor me. However, the moment I put my faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for my salvation, I was rebaptized (dry-cleaned) into the Body Of Christ. IMHO, so were you.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Henry's got a really funny sense of humor...just go with it Big D...you'll see!    He has me ROTFL all the time.