[if]

It is clear from Heb 6, if one who sins and can lose His salvation he cannot be brought back to repentance, so, your understanding of one who sins and humbles himself before God means he must repent, in order to be forgiven of that sin, if you believe one who sins, does not lose salvation, it is because the Blood of Jesus covers that sin, and will cover all sins, until the day he dies.
So it is a matter of falling out of felllowship, not losing ones salvation.

You teach someone that doctrine and they'll think they can use God's grace as a means to do what they want, because the only consequence of sinning means a falling out of fellowship and not losing their salvation.  With that kind of thinking, why would they receive Christ with fear and trembling?

Now there is another spin to this that bronzesanke brought up at the end, of our conversation, and that is a person can be deceived into believing he is saved, and that deception comes about by the person believes that through keeping Gods Commandments he can be saved.

This position is unbiblical... one cannot be saved by keeping the commandments, because the commandments were never given for that purpose, they were given to men, that they
 might examine themselves to see if they had sinned against God.

You said yourself that those who reject the teachings of Jesus are as unbelievers, so if you're not obeying what God commanded then you are an unbeliever.

Because dleiberate means you planned it, and weighed the sin against the consequence, and then excuted it, this is the despite done to the Mercy and Grace of God.  This is not what a saved man of God does, this is evidence of an unsaved person, and it should serve notice to those who see it happening, those who are deceived into believing they are saved, can never see this point.

Are you telling me you've never thought about doing something that was against God's will after you accepted Christ, and did it?  If you haven't then you're one increadibly remarkable person.  But if you have, then by your own definition you're not saved, because your aforethought sin marked you as an unbeliever.

The key word is deliberate; in your hypothetical is what makes this teaching unbiblical.

Are you saying a believer can't commit a deliberate sin?

You keep quoting this OT scripture, as though it is relevant.

So nothing in the OT is relevant?  So we can toss the Ten Commandments out the window?  So was OT scripture Jesus used to answer Satan not relevant, or anything from the OT for that matter?

I disagree with your undestanding of this, it is clear to me you have work to do, on what the scriptures really teach concerning this.

I know you disagree, because to you just accepting the free gift is all you need to do.  Point being, if it were that simple and nothing more, there's going to be a lot of people going to heaven which is why I stated that scripture because it doesn't support that doctrine.  Peter says that it's hard for the righteous to be saved, yet you make it so easy.  Sorry, but I'll believe what Peter says.

How long have you been studying scripture, anyhow??

Long enough to know the Spirit behind it.

God bless

[God is blasphemed]

At least you are honest, and recognize this doctrine to be your view point. It is when you begin to teach it as though it was inspired that causes divisions.

It is my interpretation of the scriptures, thus is it my viewpoint yes.

Thats where you are wrong, what I have shared with you is not my viewpoint, it is what Gods Word teaches, pure and simple.

No, it is your interpretation of what God's Word teaches, thus it is your view point, pure and simple.  Unless you've had some divine intervention telling you this is what it means, you'll need to accept it's your own interpretation.

Oh, some  may schmooze you, and make you feel good by agreeing with you about the lose your salvation teaching, but in reality, love is reflected in the giving of Gods word out in truth and righteousness, and keeping the weak brethern from stumbling, it is good to keep Gods commandments, but, your viewpoint makes it clear, that by not keeping it, one can lose the gift.

And that is unscriptural.

I'm not asking anybody to schmooze me or make me feel good, they certianly don't have to agree with me.  But as I've stated before, I just didn't care for the attitude in your responses.  

The scriptures answer this very question, perhaps if you should read Rom 5:15, through Rom 8:39, this will help you.

I have, and that's why I was asking the questions as an opposite of what I believe.

One can read about this very thing, concerning a fellow Christian in the early church at 1 Cor 5:1-5.

God is a jealouse God, especially for His namesake, Paul said  to the jews at;

Rom 2
24  For the name of God  is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25  For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26  Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27  And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


God will allow satan to kill the flesh of those who insist on living in sin, who claim the blood of Jesus, even to kill the body, that the spirit might be saved.  So for this reason it is good to obey, it is the duty of Christians to be obedient, by this,one proves they Love the Lord.  Obedience produces more Faith, from Faith unto Faith., the Just shall live by Faith.

What is the reason for exiling him from the church?

But the fearful, and the unbelievingand the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev 21:8

Those who reject Jesus own words, are counted among those who are unbeliving, there are christians (they claim to be anyhow,) and yet reject Jesus own words concerning eternal life of those who are given to Him, by the Father.

Those who reject that eternal life is not the present state while claiming Jesus as savior, are really unbelievers, they are deceived.  Believers in Jesus, know and believe that they have eternal life, in Him, and it is based on what He did, at Calvary, not on their own performance.

Those who reject Jesus' own words are counted as unbelievers, yes agreed.

This is the reason why I down play the need to keep the commandments, I say let everyman be a liar, but let God be true.

I see why you would say this, being that you believe that the ONLY thing we have to do is accept what he did on Calvary, nothing more.

When God gives those whom, He choses to the Son, they become the beloved, and these, are loved by Him, and we are assured, there is nothing that can separate us from His love,  nothing neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 8:35_39, you really should read Rom 8.

I have read it, but you'll notice that the word 'if' is used again and again.  Thing is, you never consider what the other side of the 'if' is.

You are reading more into this than scripture tells us, if one is slave to Christ, this means he is saved, they can never be like those of Mat 7:21-22 because Jesus shall say to them in that day, ............, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Not I use to know you...but now I don't.

I'm not reading into it at all, I'm seeing what it's saying and accepting it.  Difference is, you don't think that once we become slaves to Christ we can't decide to turn and become slaves to sin again.

Well, how many sins, must one commit to be judged to an
eternaty in Hell??

It only takes one sin.

Your hypothetical just won't fly.

Agreed, it only takes one.  But God judges the heart.

Continued.....

Bronzesnake,

As Allinall said, hope you get your rest and get better soon bro.  I'm praying for you.

God bless

Allinall,

I'm doing well these days, always room for improvement but it's nice sometimes to be able to look back and know that you've made some accomplishments through God's grace and strength.

<Again I have many questions so please bare with me>  

author=Allinall
I believe that our "doing" is simple obedience, not for the sake of maintaining the salvation Jesus bought for us with His blood, by God's plan, but for the purpose of "conforming us into the image of His Son."  How so?

But my question to this is, why would we need to conform ourselves to the image of His Son?  We're already saved, so why would you have to do anything beyond accepting him?  If accepting his free gift of salvation was good enough, why would we need to obey, or to take up our cross daily, or to do his will?  If what you say is true, not being obedient or doing his will isn't going to make any difference because we're sealed, locked in, always and forever, for eternity.  If not having fellowship with Christ is not important, why then did God sacrifice his Son for us?  Was it to have a bunch of saved people who don't love him with him in heaven?

This may seem like a sarcastic question, but rather it's a very serious question.  I ask it because the difference I see in our views, is I believe the scriptures teach that salvation is in making Jesus our Lord and Saviour.  I go back to an ancient question many people have, which is why did God create man in the first place?  Was it not for someone to fellowship with, that would walk in his ways and love him of their own free will?  God's purpose of creation was not to reconcile us to him, but rather for fellowship.  Reconciliation had to come because of our sin getting in the way.  So we need to accept what Christ did for us on the cross, repent and ask forgiveness, thus by his blood making him our Saviour.  But the scriptures say that anyone who loves him will obey what he commands, and that those who obey his commands live in him. So our love for our God is shown in our obidence to his commands, and in doing so we're in him, in his will, and we have the fellowship he desired as the reason for creating us in the first place.
Now the once saved always saved belief ignores the first part (Lord) and choses to focus only on the second part (Saviour).  So my question is, if not making him the Lord of our life (meaning having to obey what he commands) is not important or have any consequences, if Jesus died for ALL sins whether they're on purpose or not, it goes back to my original question of 'will heaven then be filled with saved people who don't love God?'  

Side note:  Nobody is fully obedient to God's commands, but I hope from all the previous posts that you know that I have made a distinction between someone who loves God but will stumble here and there, and someone who decides to turn from their ways and disobey, so I will not have to go into further detail in that again.  

My question, after you've had a chance to think about this part, is...what does it mean, "perfected for all time those who are being sanctified"?

What Jesus did on the cross is the ONLY thing that can reconcile believers to the Father, and ALWAYS will be the only thing.

God bless

[saving faith]

Its the same old argument, you desire to argue over, this is the reason you posted what you did, not because you want to learn, you have had these arguments before. So quit acking as thou you are the inujured party.

I desire to share my point of view just as you desire to share yours, I've taken what you've said and considered them, but has not changed my view.  Thus I continued with sharing my view, just as you have.  I'm not here just simply for arguements sake, as you seem to believe, but rather to discuss an issue because there might be something I'm missing or an idea that I didn't think about before.  The difference so far between me and you is that I've had the attitude that I reserve the right to be right, and I reserve the right to be wrong.  But you don't have the latter, and so your responses were full of sarcasm and accusations, both of which the attitude behind them I did not care for, and now here again you continue with this attitude and accuse me of just wanting to argue not wanting to learn and play the injured party.  You don't agree with what I say, fine.  But don't continue with this attitude you have, because it is not one that is in love and humbleness.  

Yopu insinuated here that you were teaching truth; thus my answer to you.

I did no such thing, that was your interpretation of what I said.  Instead of asking me to clarify what I meant, you assumed your own conclusion.  What I was saying was explained in my above response, that I am willing to consider what others say because I might be wrong.  Sure I believe I have a grasp on some of the truth ('some' because I don't know everything), but I could be missing something.  You on the other hand, think you know everything therefore anything that is of a different oppinion you automatically write it off and do not even consider what they're saying.  All I'm asking for is a mutual respect that we have different views and understanding, and we can calmly share those with each other without sarcasm or insults.  Please, can we do that?

The truth is, if you are saved once, you are saved forever, God doesn't do things half baked.

Does that mean you're free to do what you want without any consequences, because you're saved and God's grace covers you?  If so, where does it say it's okay to sin?  If not, then what are the consequences of deliberate sin?

The idea God saves a person one moment to unsave the next is a doctrine, thats been around since the first century, and is perpetuated by those that want to work their way into Gods presence.

There are those who believe that they must do works to get into heaven, but that is not the doctrine I'm sharing here.  Jesus commands us to obey, and by doing so we'll remain in his love.  What happens if we don't obey is we won't remain in his love.  Now how can someone be saved who isn't in Christ's love?  We obey because we become slaves to God (Rom 6), and tells us what the results are for being obedient.  When we are obedient as slaves we are doing the will of the Father.  If we deliberately become disobedient, we're not in his will and have broken fellowship with him.  We become like those who say 'Lord, Lord' but are cast away because they did not do the Father's will.  In our obedience to his Word, we are in the Father's love, doing his will, and thus have a relationship and fellowship with him.  Apart from our obedience, we have nothing.

Lose your salvation proponents, say they are saved by grace out of one side of their mouth, while preaching a gospel, that I believed, as their part;  of deal, if this is true; the it stand to reason, that if they produced saving faith, they can lose it, and then repent and regain it again, so the round and around they go, a never ending cycle.

I'm not saying that once you accept Christ, you commit a sin and lose your salvation, repent and get it again, commit another and lose it, repent and regain it, etc.  God's patience and grace run deep, and covers and always will cover those who are humble before God.  But if you deliberately continue to be disobedient even after you accepted Christ, and harden your heart, will such sins still be forgiven by God?  In your deliberate disobedience you become an enemy of God.  We are saved by God's grace, but his grace is no means to go on sinning.  To say that you can continue to deliberately sin and do what you want because God's grace will cover a multitude of sins is not a teaching I see anywhere in the Bible, and is a dangerous doctrine to believe in.

Someone shares the truth with them, and they get upset, to hear,  that God has saved for ever, it is almost as though one needs to re evangelize them all over, in most cases, they are totally unreceptive to the truth.

This is where they get stuck, and never grow out of this, and never have tiome for anything else, because they have to tend to their own selves, for fear of falling out of grace.

As for learning being a lifetime, this is true, but slavation by Grace thru Faith, is foundational to the begining of this learning experience.

Again, we are saved by God's grace, and I fully believe it.  If we remain in his love, and we do so by being obedient by faith even though we may stumble here and there, and we continue to be humble before him and do his will, we will always be in fellowship with him, we will always have the Holy Spirit to guide us as we listen for it, and we will always be under his grace (because we will always need it) as long as we are on this earth.
But if we turn from our ways and sin, none of the righteous things we've done before will be remembered.  Why?  By our turning away we are rejecting God and have left his fellowship, we're not being obedient to his word, and we're not loving him.  If it were not so, then the road would be broad and the gate wide that leads to life, and narrow would be the road and the gate small that leads to destruction.  

We just talked about;

You need to accept Gods Woprd as the truth, and move on,

I have accepted ALL of God's Word as the truth, perhaps you need to accept ALL of God's Word, not in pieces you feel safe in.

God bless

Allinall,

Glad to hear you have been blessed, and I hope you continue to be so.

I will not respond right away, but take what you have said and consider it and respond when I come to a conclusion.

God bless

Petro,

I have a response to your last post to me, and I have some questions to ask.  But I will not continue this discussion with you if you continue in your sarcasm and accusations.  You have shown me no desire to seek the truth, and you have not displayed any humbleness or love whatsoever.

Now, if you want to continue with this discussion I'd be happy to, if you so desire to in love and not arrogance.  

If I have preceived this wrongly, please let me know.

God bless

everyday newborn,

What is the truth??

It is clear to me you, do not have it...whether it is because of unbelief or lack of faith, I cannot say..........but truth that is revealed by the same Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead, is not to be rebuffed for the embracing of man made teachings.

You have shown me no desire to seek the truth,

It is fruitless to discuss such an important subject with someone, who believes he/she has it, I am not seeking truth, I am sharing it with you....

God loves you and desires you know it, and not allow yourself to be led by every whim of mans teachings, this is why  Jesus said;

Take heed that no man deceive you.

Of course, I trust you have a a reliable version of the scriptures which can be used to check, what has been shared with you.

But thanks for your comments, anyhow..

Blessings,

Petro

Again, you lack love and humbleness in your response.

Truth is in the word of God, and you said yourself it's fruitless to discuss something like this with someone who claims to have it, which then in the very next part of the sentence you said you did and I didn't.  You hypocrite!  I say I'm seeking the truth because I don't claim to know everything and this is a learning process for me, and will be till the day I die.  But you claim to know it all and again exposed your arrogance.

God bless

ALLINALL, my coffee buddy!  How have you been?

I do have a question for you about what you said in your post about, "how then can I ever make a free-will choice to be unbought?"

Do you still sin after you have accepted Christ?  If you lose your free will after you have been bought, are you saying that God is sinning through you?

Before we accept Christ, are our sins forgiven?  No.  Why not?  Because we haven't accepted Christ and asked for his forgiveness and repented.  Now after we accept Christ, do you think we still need to ask forgiveness for the sins we commit, and repent of them?  Do you think we still need to try and turn from our evil ways whatever they may be?

In 1 Cor 6:19-20, the last part said for us to glorify God in our bodies.  Is he not speaking to us that WE need to glorify God in our bodies?  Doesn't that make it something we have to do?  If we have no free will and only God works through us, is God commanding himself to glorify himself through us?

In the Hebrews scripture 13:5b, is a point that I think some people miss in this debate.  God makes the promise that HE will never leave nor forsake us, and when we have that fellowship with him we reap all the promises that he gives us.  In order for us to reap it, we have to accept it.  Now if we suddenly reject it, do we still reap the promises he gives?  If we do, then is it okay to continue in our sin after we've accepted Christ, do we need to take up our cross daily, do we have to show that we love him by obeying his commands since his grace will cover all sins?

Please remember, and consider this.  I'm trying to make a distinction here, between someone who walks with God yet stumbles here and there because they're not perfect, who humbles himself before God and asks for forgiveness of his sins, and tries to do God's will to the best of his ability.  If this person continues to do so, he will remain in God's love, will he not?  But if a person hardens their heart and doesn't ask for forgiveness of his sins and instead decides to justify it and/or ignore what God says about it, will such a person still have fellowship with God?  Will someone who sins and says it's okay because 'God's grace covers me.', will have a place in God's kingdom?  Is God's Grace a means to justify sin?  Does sin not have any consequence after we have given our life to Christ?


Let me know what your thoughts are on this.  

God bless

Petro,

I have a response to your last post to me, and I have some questions to ask.  But I will not continue this discussion with you if you continue in your sarcasm and accusations.  You have shown me no desire to seek the truth, and you have not displayed any humbleness or love whatsoever.

Now, if you want to continue with this discussion I'd be happy to, if you so desire to in love and not arrogance.  

If I have preceived this wrongly, please let me know.

God bless

[principal]

Sorry I have not responded sooner, I have been very busy lately.

I have read the scriptures over and over, and I have read what your interpretation is.  My conclusion remains the same however, and I will gladly explain. (Please keep in mind that in my posts I'm simply offering a different point of view, whether you agree with it or not is up to you.  I've seen some people get upset with each other over issues and I hope that doesn't happen here.)  

You said: “Ezekiel 33, is written to the Jews who were under the OT Law of Moses, the Covenant has been abolished even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, by Jesus in his flesh. (Eph 2:15)”

First of all, this has nothing to do with the OT Law, what God is establishing here is a principal, and it is not limited to just the Jews alone.  If you disregard everything that was established under the old Covenant, then are you disregarding the Ten Commandments?  Ezekiel 33 talks of a righteous man, so according to your response are you stating this passage is saying that men were only righteous in the OT?  Were only Jews righteous?  Absolutely not!  The principal God was establishing here was that of a person whom He himself deemed as a righteous man, and says to the man that he will surely live (eternal security) in v13.  BUT then HE (of his free will) turns from his ways and does evil, the consequence is death (wait, what happened to eternal security?).  Die does not mean the first death and live can’t possibly mean physical life, those definitions would not fit with this passage.  They can only mean eternal separation from God and eternal life with God.  
It also talks about a sinner and unbeliever who decides to turn from his wicked ways and the result is he has life.  It is clearly showing both sides of the situation.  Re-read that carefully and consider what each sentence is saying.  By the way, this same passage is repeated in Ezekiel three times, so this must be important.

Now concerning John 15, I do not agree with your interpretation of this scripture.

As you said yourself, this passage is not difficult to understand.  Jesus establishes God as the gardener, Jesus is the vine, and we are branches.  This can only mean believers since what he is saying here is that we are ‘in Christ’.  The unsaved are not ‘in Christ’.  In order to ‘remain’ in something, we have to be a part of it in the first place, right?  This is a key element to this passage.
In vs.1 he establishes that he is the true vine (meaning he is the only way to God {John 14:6 “ I am the way and the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me.}”  
In vs.2 God is the gardener who cuts off every branch that does not bear fruit (the believer who does not remain in Jesus) and prunes the branches who do.  Remember, who he’s talking about are those who are saved, because to be a believer is to be ‘in Christ’.  So what does it mean to bear fruit?  We can only bare fruit by our faith and obedience to Christ.  So those who are not faithful or obedient, are cut off.  Those who remain faithful and obedient, God prunes or continues to work in us to rid our lives of our sins so that we can be closer to Him, and be better witnesses to the unbelievers and Glorify Him through us.
In vs.3 they have become believers through the message Christ spoke to them.  This is followed by a command in vs.4, to REMAIN in him.  He goes on to tell us why we should remain in him, because if we don’t remain faithful and obedient, we will not be being good witnesses and we will not be glorifying God.  We must remain in him.
In vs.5 he restates who he is, and who we are, then goes on to tell us what will be the result ‘if’ (1st key word) we ‘remain’ (2nd key word) in him.  That is he will remain in us and we will bear much fruit, because should we chose to not remain in him and thus separate ourselves from Christ we are then on our own, and that amounts to nothing.
Now you say in vs.6 it doesn’t say anything about being ‘cut off’ or ‘separated’, when indeed it does.  The very beginning of the sentence says that ‘If’ (key word again) we don’t ‘remain’ (the biggest key word in this sentence) in him, that branch is thrown away.  Again, in order to ‘remain’ in him we would have to be a part of him in the first place.  But if it’s thrown away, how is that still attached to the vine?  Can you throw a branch away that is still part of the vine?  So the judgement is that they were once a part of the vine, and are now separated and thrown into the fire (eternal damnation).
In vs.7 he states again the two key words throughout this passage, that ‘if’ we ‘remain’ in him, we will have a relationship with him.
In vs.8 he states again the reason why we are to ‘remain’ in him, it’s for God’s glory in our fruit bearing (faith and obedience) which is evidence that we are true believers.
In vs.9 he addresses those who are in his love, we are to ‘remain’ in his love.
In vs.10 he tells us how we ‘remain’ in his love, by our obedience.  Note that he uses ‘if’ again.  
In vs.11 Your joy comes from knowing you have a friendship with Jesus, and that comes again from doing what he commands (states again in vs.14).

These two passages are clear principals that a loss of one’s salvation is possible.  How is it possible?  By our separating ourselves from Jesus, through a deliberate disobedience to his Word, we break that friendship and are cast away into the fire and burned.  Does this happen at the drop of a hat?  Certainly not!  But the scriptures are clear that it can happen.  When Jesus gave his sermon on the mount, he took the physical laws and elevated them to an inward spiritual reflection. "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.”  And, “"You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.'  But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.", etc.  These all point to the attitude of your heart, something inward.  That is what I have been trying to say in all my posts, that if you deliberately sin against God, it’s a result of something that happened inwardly and there is an attitude of disobedience to God.  That is where a person runs into trouble.  You asked me to answer your question, this whole post is an answer to your question.  Jesus went to the cross and died for the sins of those who repent of them.  Jesus gives me the free gift.  That is the work he did in my salvation and became my Savior.  But there is a responsibility we now have as believers, which is obedience to His Word as a new creation.  Jesus himself stressed this numerous times, under the Old Covenant as well as the New, that never changed.  My being obedient to His Word and His Will is my responsibility in making him the Lord of my life.  You can NOT have one without the other.  How can someone say, ‘I’ll accept the free gift but I don’t have to be obedient to his Word’.  Or how could someone say, ‘I’ll obey what he said but I don’t have to accept what he did for me.’  Will such people be saved?  
In Ezekiel, God said he was a righteous man, and said that he will surely live.  But then the person did something that ended up costing him all of what he had.  In John it continually stated 'if we' remain, pointing out that the responsibility is ours and the consequences of our decisions.  We have to accept the free gift, and we have to remain in him.

I hope that you will at least consider what I've said, and re-read the scriptures.  If you still disagree, then we know where each other stands and still accept each other as brothers and friends.

God bless.

[Eternal Security for the Believer]

Thank you for replying Petro, I will go back and consider what you have said and re-read the scriptures.  I will let you know what I conclude.

And no I have not skirted your question, I asked for clarification, obviously meaning I wanted to make sure I was clear on what you were asking before I answered, and I thank you not to accuse me of knowing what you meant and purposely dodging it.  I will answer that question as well.



God bless

{See Eternal Security for the Believer thread for response.}

Thank you for replying Petro, I will go back and consider what you have said and re-read the scriptures.  I will let you know what I conclude.

And no I have not skirted your question, I asked for clarification, obviously meaning I wanted to make sure I was clear on what you were asking before I answered, and I thank you not to accuse me of knowing what you meant and purposely dodging it.  I will answer that question as well.



God bless

Ambassador4Christ, AllinAll, and Brother Love:

How does your view fit in with Ezekiel 33:12-20, and John 15:5-10?

I have asked for an explaination of this in other threads, and still has not been addressed.

asaph referred to a little out of John 15, yet nobody offered and explaination to what that scripture was saying.  Please offer me your explaination of both scriptures I mentioned above.  I look forward to hearing from you.  

God bless.

The point being that outside of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus in the New Covenant there is no salvation.

 Was posted by Petro, and I must agree, AMEN!

<))><

Do you believe that I think there is another salvation outside of the sacrifice of our Lord?  If so, please explain.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Ezekiel 33:12-20, and John 15:5-10?

everyday newborn,

Before I answer your question, allow me to ask you two questions?

What percentage of Work did God play in your Salvation .....??

What percentage of Work did you play in your Salvation??




You agreed with everything that was said, according to your previous response.

On the other hand from your post to me it sounds as though you may not have.

Blessings,

Petro

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'Work'.

I stated what I agreed with, and continued on with what I didn't agree with.  I hope that clears up any contradiction.

God bless