The evidence of that is my dad allowed me to live.

A certain amount of fear of appropriate reprisal along with a strong loving hand is a good deterrent. Many of our children today do not get this sort of training in their upbringing. I personally put the blame on liberal ideologies of how to raise a child.

My Dad was not a pastor. He was a deacon at one point in his life. If I had done anything out of line to dishonor God or the church in any fashion I knew that I would be removed from the church immediately and receive a lesson I would feel for a very long time.

Fear of such reprisal is no longer taught in many churches or homes.

We are taught in the Bible that we should fear the Lord. Many now teach love without reprisal. I personally believe that there should be and is a good balance of both.

Temple Mount desecration continues

By Ryan Jones

November 10th, 2005

Nearly 14 centuries after first occupying Jerusalem's Temple Mount, the Muslims are trying to complete their conquest of Israel’s holiest site by erasing the last traces of Jewish connection to the two temples built for the name of the Almighty, archeologists warned this week.

In a letter to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the Committee Against the Destruction of Antiquities on the Temple Mount said new plans by Islamic authorities to “renovate” an ancient tower adjacent to the compound are part of long-running efforts to turn the holy site into a mega-mosque.

“As part of our follow-up on [these] activities over the last years, it has become clear that these projects are part of an overall...plan to turn the whole compound into an exclusively Muslim site,” the letter read.

The Islamic Trust or Waqf has for years carried out illegal construction atop and under the Temple Mount, unchecked by Israeli authorities fearful of sparking an even greater conflict with the Muslim world.

Waqf chief gotcha98 Husseini has repeatedly warned that this would indeed be the outcome if Israel dared to exert authority over the sacred site.

To date, 12,000 tons of earth and debris rich in Jewish artifacts has been removed from the Mount and dumped unceremoniously at garbage dumps outside Jerusalem's Old City.

Several historical treasures have been reclaimed from the dump sites. Untold others have been lost, possibly forever.

 Islamic Radicals Plan World Revolution from Temple Mount
Sunday, November 13, 2005 / 11 Cheshvan 5766

Islamic radicals have been using the Temple Mount as a focal point for planning and preaching the establishment of a world Islamic state with Jerusalem as its capital.

One of the radical groups operating on the Temple Mount is Hizab Altahrir (The Islamic Liberation Party), which espouses an ideology similar to Al Qaeda. Hizab Altahrir’s network spans most Western European countries. The party puts Islamic revolution and an uncompromising form of Jihad (holy war) at the top of its political agenda.

The group advocates subjecting the entire world to Islamic law (Shariya), and destroying non-believing nations and religions.


Hizab Altahrir’s activity, however, is not limited to the Temple Mount. The group is sending out charismatic Islamic preachers to spread its radical ideology to mosques in villages near Jerusalem, Hebron, Kalkilya, and Tulkarem.

Last October, during Ramadan, when large numbers of Moslems visit mosques, the party expanded its efforts to recruit new members and activists.

Thousands of young Arabs living in the Palestinian Authority have been participating in the party’s youth movement under the slogan, “Campaigning to Preach Revolution.”

On the Temple Mount, near the Dome of the Rock, Altahrir’s youth recently put up a giant banner declaring “Revolution is a Divine Command.” The party’s flag appears on the right and left hand side of the banner. (See photo above). The youth were greeted by party members who shouted, “Next year in Jerusalem, under the rule of the Islamic revolution.”

The party has targeted Europe, specifically Denmark, for spreading its revolutionary ideology, and providing a springboard for renewing Islamic conquests in Europe. A senior party activist in Jerusalem, Sheikh Issam Amira, expressed this philosophy in a recent speech which he made on the Temple Mount:

“Listeners! The Moslems in Denmark make up three percent [of the population], yet constitute a threat to the future of the Danish kingdom. It’s no surprise that in Bitrab (the ancient name of Medina, a city in Arabia to which Mohammed immigrated) they were fewer than three percent of the general population, but succeeded changing the regime in Bitrab.

“It’s no surprise that our brothers in Denmark have succeeded in bringing Islam to every home in that country. Allah will grant us victory in their land to establish the [Islamic] revolution in Denmark.”

After Denmark, the Sheikh said, the party will carry the revolution to Oslo and change its name to Medina. “They will fight against their Scandinavian neighbors in order to bring the country into the territory of the revolution,” he said. “In the next stage, they will fight a holy jihad to spread Islam to the rest of Europe, until it spreads to the original city of Medina where the two cities will unite under the Islamic flag.”

Sheikh Riyad Salah, head of the Islamic movement in Israel has also been active teaching the tenets of “Islamic revolution.”

“We are at the gates of the Islamic revolution,” he proclaimed in one of his sermons to Arab citizens of Israel. “The global forces of evil will be eliminated from the world and the Islamic nation will remain in place in order to bring about the world Islamic revolution, with its capital, Jerusalem.”

Salah, who until a few months ago was under arrest for allegedly assisting an organization connected to the Hamas terror group, has for a number of years been attempting to organize Israel’s Arab citizens into an “independent Palestinian society,” disconnected from the State of Israel and its institutions.

Salah’s organization has also contributed to efforts to repair Arab mosques on the Temple Mount, and attempts to erase the remains of Jewish antiquities on the Mount.

I wasn't sure you said 5 yrs thats the reason for the question mark, I didn't take the time to look back. Even at 8 yrs I still would have tried to rescue it. A stoves lifespan is supposed to be set at 15 to 20 yrs so at 8 yrs it is worth getting it fixed is what I meant. With the the cost I probably would have done it myself also.

That's what I thought you meant, but wasn't sure.

Consumer's Reports says that the lifespan of appliances is 8 years, now.  This was in one of the last few months publications.  Not happy to hear this!  Not happy at all!  Tent living might eventually not be an option.

Tent living? Who uses tents? Tents will be a luxury item. A few sticks and some leaves make a good shelter.  

A few sticks and some leaves can make some other things, too.  

Luxury items?...........................you are so right.  For us oldsters, the things that were common years ago are now commanding "designer" status.  Ie., 100% cotton percale 200 thread count, non resin bedsheets are out of reach for the common person.  King size is somewhere around $100 per sheet, not a set, but a sheet.  Full size is not much less expensive.  They now call "blends" (meaning polyester and cotton) PERCALE.  Well, polyester is a form of plastic, so we're forced to sleep on plastic because of price.  Our choices are being limited, ever so slowly.  The most recent sales pitch is on "soft", oh, it's so soft, and gets softer with each washing.  What a con!  Soft means it has no "body."  Just about everyone buys into it.  I KNOW the difference and it makes me  .  Oh well.  Enough about this.  It could be a whole other discussion. I don't want to go there any more than I already have.

I know what you mean. It is a rip-off and in my opinion false advertising.

Bush singles out Israel – again

By Ryan Jones

November 13th, 2005

For the third time in recent weeks, US President George W. Bush Friday pointed to defense of Israel as a major reason behind American's ongoing global war against Islamic terrorism.

“With the greater economic and military and political power they seek, the terrorists would be able to advance their stated agenda -- to develop weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate Europe, to assault the American people and to blackmail our government into isolation.”

So said Bush in a Veteran's Day address, repeating the exact words used in two previous speeches explaining is determination not to prematurely withdraw from Iraq and relinquish his quest to smash the forces of Islamic terror.

Bush noted that while these goals may seem far fetched, “fanatical and extreme...they should not be dismissed.”

“Our enemy is utterly committed,” the president warned.

While Bush correctly and unashamedly identified the enemy as adherents of Islam, he also attempted to paint that religion as a faith of peace and tolerance which a scattered few killers are twisting and exploiting.

“These extremists distort the idea of jihad into a call for terrorist murder against Christians and Hindus and Jews and against Muslims themselves who do not share their radical vision.”

In holding to this position, the president is ignoring that fact that polls and demonstrations throughout the Middle East regularly show widespread – frequently majority – public support for terrorism against the West, and in particular against Israel.

Following the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York City and Washington DC, for example, Arab Muslims across this region burst forth in joyous celebration. From Cairo to Damascus to Ramallah, candies were passed out to mark Osama bin Laden's successful strike at the heart of America.

Israel Approves EU Role at the Rafah Border Crossing

By BICOM

IHC Abstract
Israel is prepared to involve a third party in the supervision of the Rafah border crossing, namely the European Union. Whereas in the past Israel has been reluctant to involve international bodies in security arrangements between Israelis and Palestinians, now it is open to granting the EU an active role in administering the Rafah border crossing. The Palestinian Authority, on the other hand, is disinclined to give the EU an active role, preferring instead to limit EU involvement to an advisory position.

Starting 1 January 2006, the Rafah terminal will serve Palestinian citizens and holders of VIP accreditation who wish to enter and leave Gaza for Egypt. It will also be used for goods leaving Gaza and entering Egypt. Goods entering Gaza from Egypt will be processed at a new terminal to be built at the Israeli-Palestinian-Egyptian border tri-point at Kerem Shalom, to the south of Rafah.

BICOM perceives this imminent development as a welcome change in Israel’s uncompromising predispositions. It believes this about-face will open up the possibility for international expertise and goodwill to help Israel and the Palestinians to move towards peaceful relations.

'Lost tribe' still dreaming of Israel

Community is mentally and physically prepared to get converted to Judaism and leave for promised land
Associated Press

GAUHATI, India - Thousands of people in a remote corner of India who claim to be members of a lost tribe of Israel are pressing ahead with their studies of Judaism in hopes of moving to the Jewish state, community leaders said.

 
Israel on Wednesday announced it would stop the conversions of the 6,000 Bnei Menashe in the wake of complaints from the Indian government. Instead, Israel said it would allow them to emigrate and then perform the conversions.

 
Members of the group from the northeastern Indian states of Mizoram and Manipur call themselves the "Bnei Menashe," or children of Menashe, and believe they are descendants of the Israelite tribe of Manasseh.

 
"We are aware of the Israeli government decision, but our people have not lost hope," Jeremiah Hnamte, adviser of the Bnei Menashe Council, told The Associated Press from Aizawl, capital of Mizoram.

 
The community "are mentally and physically prepared to get converted to Judaism and leave for their promised land," he said.

 

Recognized

 
Earlier this year, an Israeli chief rabbi recognized the Bnei Menashe as one of the 10 lost tribes of Israel, ruling that they followed several Jewish traditions. The rabbi, Shlomo Amar, ordered their formal conversions to Orthodox Judaism, which would be crucial to their recognition as Jews by Israeli religious authorities.

 
Bnei Menashe members believe they are descendants of Jews who were banished from biblical Israel by the Assyrians in the eighth century B.C.E. and gradually worked their way eastward to India. In the 19th century, British missionaries to India converted the Bnei Menashe members - who were then animists - to Christianity.

 
In September, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's office sent six rabbis to India, who converted 600 members of the tribe to Judaism to ensure they could immigrate to Israel under state law.

 

Delhi's concerns

 
But New Delhi expressed concerns after the mass conversions.

 
Hnamte said the rabbis returned to Israel after being turned away from Manipur state.

 
Instead of converting the Bnei Menashe in their home region of northeastern India, the rabbis will now wait to convert them after Israel brings them to the Jewish state, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said.

 
The Bnei Menashe continue to prepare for their conversions with the help of community members who have already undergone the process.

 
"I am still carrying out my job as I have not received any fresh instructions from the Rabbinate," said Rabbi Yahuda Gin, who originally hails from Mizoram and returned to Aizawl about four months ago to teach the Bnei Menashe the finer points of the religion.

 
"These are matters of faith, not governmental affairs, and, therefore, our work should go on," Gin told The Associated Press.

 

800 in Israel

 

Gin said he was sent with the consent of Amar.

 
About 800 members of the Bnei Menashe have been brought to Israel - and formally converted - over the last decade by the private group Amishav, Hebrew for "my people returns."

 
According to Amishav, there is ample evidence to show the Bnei Menashe are of Jewish descent. Their customs, including mourning rites, hygiene and the use of a lunar calendar, closely mirror Jewish traditions.

 

Sunday, November 13, 2005 · Last updated 9:34 a.m. PT

Iowa picks up pieces after deadly tornado

By AMY LORENTZEN
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WOODWARD, Iowa -- Jackie and Bill Seeman sorted through the wreckage of their home Sunday to see what was spared by a tornado that killed one person and damaged dozens of homes.

They were delighted to find a few collectibles, but their car was covered in rubble and their boat had been thrown hundreds of feet away.

"We'll probably stay here, although I'd like to go somewhere without a tornado," Jackie Seeman said as she began crying.

Twisters swept across two counties north and west of Des Moines late Saturday afternoon, ripping up farms in the towns of Stratford and Woodward. At least one person was killed in Stratford.

Bill Seeman was shopping in a nearby town when the storm arrived but Jackie Seeman, 47, said she was in bed when her house collapsed around her.

"I heard a big whoosh and a big boom and then my house just came in on me," she said.

Dallas County Sheriff Brian Gilbert said no serious injuries were reported in Woodward, but search dogs were being brought in to check the rubble as a precaution. "We are 98 percent sure we have accounted for everybody," he said.

"It's amazing. If you've seen the damage here, we had homes that were just obliterated and they had people in them at the time it came through," Gilbert said.

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Roads to Woodward were being reopened Sunday to allow access to utilities, Gilbert said.

In Stratford, a town of about 746 people, residents were asked to stay away to give repair crews room to work Sunday, said Chris Segar, a communications supervisor with the Hamilton County sheriff's office.

Segar said the Red Cross set up a relief center for residents affected by the storm.

High wind also broke windows on the outskirts of Ames, where tornado sirens had already sent college football fans gathered for the Iowa State-Colorado game running for shelter.

When Sean Wolfe, of Woodward, returned from the game, his home was gone. "It's done," he said.

However, his dogs were unhurt in his garage. "They're my kids," he said Sunday as he walked them past the town fire station.

Tornadoes also caused minor damage in several other towns, said Gary Foster, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Des Moines.

Tornadoes aren't common this late in the year. Iowa has had just 23 November tornadoes since 1950, according to weather service records.

The conditions were right, though, with unseasonably warm weather in the way of a fast-moving cold front, experts said. Last weekend, another tornado ripped through western Kentucky and Southwest Indiana, killing 22 people.

I wasn't sure you said 5 yrs thats the reason for the question mark, I didn't take the time to look back. Even at 8 yrs I still would have tried to rescue it. A stoves lifespan is supposed to be set at 15 to 20 yrs so at 8 yrs it is worth getting it fixed is what I meant. With the the cost I probably would have done it myself also.

That's what I thought you meant, but wasn't sure.

Consumer's Reports says that the lifespan of appliances is 8 years, now.  This was in one of the last few months publications.  Not happy to hear this!  Not happy at all!  Tent living might eventually not be an option.

Tent living? Who uses tents? Tents will be a luxury item. A few sticks and some leaves make a good shelter.  

PR,

Couldn't you have replaced the seal on your oven door, and the insulation around the oven box?

I could have but it was an old standing pilot light type stove probably as old as I am and beat up worse than I am so I didn't bother. Instead I eventually replaced it.

OK...............I guess I just might have to do it.  Have too much money into that thing not to do it, that is, if the harness doesn't change anything.  I sure hope it does, though.  I don't need this headache, nor do I need the rash I developed, either.  I'm laughing, even though it isn't funny.

You said your stove is only fiver years old? I probably would have tried to rescue it myself.

]
I didn't see this post.  Wonder how many others I haven't seen?

I said my stove is 5 years old?  Where did I say that?  I was supposed to type in 8 years old, 'cause that's how old it is.

I probably would have tried to rescue it myself??  Do you mean you would have gone about trying to repair it yourself, like I did?  I'm a little bit corn-fused here at the moment.  I'll just blame that on something...................the time of night, the week (s) I've had, etc.

Just blame it on the stove. And I think what PR had in mind about smashing the chocolate chip cookies was smashing them with his teeth while they were in his mouth. Don't forget he said he loves chocolate chip cookie dough.

 

I must admit that I find this rather interesting.  I'd like to add a thought or two here if I might...

For one, we know that God hates both sin and the sinner:

For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
   evil may not dwell with you.
The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;
   you hate all evildoers.
You destroy those who speak lies;
   the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Psalm 5:4-6

The LORD tests the righteous,
   but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.
Let him rain coals on the wicked;
   fire and sulfur and a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup.
For the LORD is righteous;
he loves righteous deeds;
   the upright shall behold his face.

Psalm 11:5-7

"I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have you loved us?" "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert."

Malachi 1:2-3

There are six things that the LORD hates,
   seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
   and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
   feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
   and one who sows discord among brothers.

Proverbs 6:16-19

We also know that this behavior is one mimicked by David in the Psalms:

Oh that you would slay the wicked, O God!
   O men of blood, depart from me!
They speak against you with malicious intent;
   your enemies take your name in vain!
Do I not hate those who hate you, O LORD?
   And do I not loathe those who rise up against you?
I hate them with complete hatred;
   I count them my enemies.

Psalm 139:19-22

We can argue the here to's and why for's, but I think that this is where principle is found.  David was a man after God's own heart.  He hated those that hated God; counted them as his enemies.  Yet, I still see a principle in his wording: he loved God and hated evil.  

As believers we're commanded not to love the world, nor the things that are in the world, yet we are to love our enemies.  It's important here to note that we are commanded to love our enemies.  The world is at enmity with God, and can be our enemy.  Should be our enemy.  We are not to love the world, yet we are to love our enemies.  Is this then a paradox?

Hardly!  It's a matter of perspective I think.  We are strangers in this world.  It's not home, and we're not to make it our home.  It, it's inhabitants, and everything it has to offer we aren't to love.  But it's inhabitants are under a death warrant.  We're to love them by telling them of their sentence, and giving them the opportunity to accept God's pardon.

I honestly think that a believer who loves God with all of his heart will hate the sinner.  God says to love them.  The problem isn't with the hater.  It's with the lover.  Too many of us love this present world, don't we?  The love is in the sharing God's gracious gift in spite of our hate of who, and what they are.  It's interesting how you don't have to command a loving person to love.

But, as I am wont to do, I believe the context in which the passage about loving our enemies was written was speaking of physical enemies; people who've wronged us or hurt us.  Let's be real.  Most of the world hasn't really done anything to us!  Jesus was telling us not to respond in kind, but to love those who hurt us.  

So.  Do I hate sinners?  Personally, I'm not much of a hater.  I tend to rest in the "love your enemies" point.  But there are those that hate God that I'm not very fond of.  Hate?  No.  Dislike passionately?  Yes.  Why?  Because..."this world is not my home, I'm just a passin' through..."

Just a thought...

Amen, Allinall.

Again we are back to defining the exact meaning and depth of both "hate" and "love" as it is used in these verses and just how we are to both hate our enemies and yet we are still to love them. I think that you gave a pretty good description of it.

This is why we are told that we should " love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

Notice in the following verses "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself". It does not say to love our neighbor or ourselves to that same depth. This is understandable as we are to love God more than anything or anyone else. I also believe that we sould love our brothers to a greater depth and in a different manner than our enemies. Jesus showed us this kind of love for our enemies on the cross when he said "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do".

It is the same with hate. I would say that I hate Satan and the things that he does to a greater extent than I do those that refuse the Lord as Saviour. I have a compassion for these people. It tares at my heart because I know what they are doing to themselves but they do not understand what they are doing to themselves.

Amen Brother Tom, that was the point that I was trying to make on the seeming contradiction. I am really tired tonight and still can't sleep so I don't doubt that I am not getting my point across clearly. Thank you for clearing it up.

Brother Roger,

I understand completely about being real tired and not being able to sleep. I've got that t-shirt and there's not much I can do about it.

 What would you think about going over to fix the stove belonging to Cris. I'm laughing about a crazy tv show I watched several times, but I can't remember the name - "Something Tool man". I think that we could re-route some of the electric lines in the neighborhood and get enough electricity to that stove that it would glow in the dark from a block away.

Cris only wants that stove to cook, and I bet we can make it cook. We could make that thing go through an entire self-cleaning cycle in 5 seconds or less. By the time we get through, it ought to cook a grisly bear, fur and all, in less than 5 minutes. It ought to be good to go if we can just get the electricity cost for that stove down to several hundred per month.

(Small Print: I put this here for Cris and also hoped it might be so bad that it would put you to sleep).  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:6 NASB  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

BEP, you're talking about turning that oven into a cremation contraption  

 

Amen Brother Tom, that was the point that I was trying to make on the seeming contradiction. I am really tired tonight and still can't sleep so I don't doubt that I am not getting my point across clearly. Thank you for clearing it up.

Brother Roger,

I understand completely about being real tired and not being able to sleep. I've got that t-shirt and there's not much I can do about it.

 What would you think about going over to fix the stove belonging to Cris. I'm laughing about a crazy tv show I watched several times, but I can't remember the name - "Something Tool man". I think that we could re-route some of the electric lines in the neighborhood and get enough electricity to that stove that it would glow in the dark from a block away.

Cris only wants that stove to cook, and I bet we can make it cook. We could make that thing go through an entire self-cleaning cycle in 5 seconds or less. By the time we get through, it ought to cook a grisly bear, fur and all, in less than 5 minutes. It ought to be good to go if we can just get the electricity cost for that stove down to several hundred per month.

(Small Print: I put this here for Cris and also hoped it might be so bad that it would put you to sleep).  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:6 NASB  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

I finally got to sleep for a few hours. My wife found the sledge hammer. (not saying that one had anything to do with the other.    )

I really liked that show. He had some really good ideas.  

Cris' chocolate chip cookies would be done in .0005 milisecs. That sounds like a good idea to me. It could double as a beacon for a "Lighthouse".

Amen Brother Tom, that was the point that I was trying to make on the seeming contradiction. I am really tired tonight and still can't sleep so I don't doubt that I am not getting my point across clearly. Thank you for clearing it up.

Amen Brother Tom, I'm glad that you came along on this. I was at a loss for words but I do believe that you have it pegged down.

One thing that I have thought of here is that there are different kinds/levels of love and there are different kinds/levels of hate.

We are to love our parents, to love our wife, to love our children, to love our brothers, to love our neighbors, to love our enemies. Yet in one verse we are told to hate our parents. As Cris said there are no contradictions in the Bible because God does contradict himself. In the case of the love your parents and hate your parents I believe what He is telling us is that we are not to love our parents as much as we love Him.

The Strongs Concordance defines the Hebrew word originally used where the word hate is in the OT as enemy, foe, odious, (odious means something that is repulsive).

In the NT strongs defines the original Greek word for hate as   to detest (especially to persecute), or to love less.

I see from this that there are then different kinds or levels of hate.

 Merriam-Webster says:

1 a : intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury b : extreme dislike or antipathy :

I think that most people have a some what different idea as to the meaning of hate. I believe that most of us think of it in the extreme sense of the word. A feeling that consumes us in a cancerous like way.