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Title: no water baptism no salvation Post by: tonytony on January 15, 2004, 11:49:42 AM john 3:5
water is water and spirit and spirit. at the same time we cant despise ephesians 2:8-9. please note that nobody is a bible expert quoting one good verse alone. read 2 timothy 2:15 also read 2 timothy 3:16 now read james 2:10 if you have a problem with any of these verses its because your a child of the devil (john 8:44 & john 10:27) if you really want to know a judger go to a funeral or listen to people compliment their friends that have passed away some time. Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: ollie on January 15, 2004, 02:56:41 PM john 3:5 Perhaps the final "judger" awaits at the funeral home!water is water and spirit and spirit. at the same time we cant despise ephesians 2:8-9. please note that nobody is a bible expert quoting one good verse alone. read 2 timothy 2:15 also read 2 timothy 3:16 now read james 2:10 if you have a problem with any of these verses its because your a child of the devil (john 8:44 & john 10:27) if you really want to know a judger go to a funeral or listen to people compliment their friends that have passed away some time. Have a good Day. Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: The Crusader on January 16, 2004, 04:12:12 AM john 3:5 water is water and spirit and spirit. at the same time we cant despise ephesians 2:8-9. please note that nobody is a bible expert quoting one good verse alone. read 2 timothy 2:15 also read 2 timothy 3:16 now read james 2:10 if you have a problem with any of these verses its because your a child of the devil (john 8:44 & john 10:27) if you really want to know a judger go to a funeral or listen to people compliment their friends that have passed away some time. LOL thanks for the laughs kid. The Crusader Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: Allinall on January 16, 2004, 08:29:39 AM Quote water is water and spirit and spirit... Amen!![/b] ...and blood is blood. Such has been and always will be the basis for redemption. Belief is the basis for salvation. Blood bought redemption via the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary alone, and the faith proffered by the word to attain that payment. Praise God!! Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: ollie on January 16, 2004, 02:44:07 PM john 3:5 "please note that nobody is a bible expert quoting one good verse alone.'water is water and spirit and spirit. at the same time we cant despise ephesians 2:8-9. please note that nobody is a bible expert quoting one good verse alone. read 2 timothy 2:15 also read 2 timothy 3:16 now read james 2:10 if you have a problem with any of these verses its because your a child of the devil (john 8:44 & john 10:27) if you really want to know a judger go to a funeral or listen to people compliment their friends that have passed away some time. The results are in, you have given seven as references but have quoted none. Anymore of this expertise? Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: ollie on January 16, 2004, 02:49:58 PM Quote water is water and spirit and spirit... Amen!![/b] ...and blood is blood. Such has been and always will be the basis for redemption. Belief is the basis for salvation. Blood bought redemption via the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary alone, and the faith proffered by the word to attain that payment. Praise God!! On a more serious note. What is meant by the water mentioned in John 3:5? Ollie Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: Kris777 on January 16, 2004, 06:05:07 PM This is when Jesus is in Samaria and tells this women to give Him a drink of water.
John 4:13 -14 " Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 6:33-35 " For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." So when Jesus says that you must be born of water and of the spirit. He is saying that you must believe in Him and have the Holy Spirit to be saved. Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: flutterby on January 16, 2004, 11:20:05 PM I agree with what my pastor teaches on baptism. If you were the holder of a billion dollar lottery ticket (prior to being a Christian :P) and the rules on the back of that ticket said you must bring that ticket to the office within 24 hours and no later would you wait until 24 and a half hours to see how strict that office was about their rules? Well, NO! You would rush right in there the second their office opened. I refuse to do the absolute minimum or even try to see what I can get away with. What use is that? The Bible teaches water baptism. What great good is there in disputing such a simple thing?
flutterby Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: JudgeNot on January 16, 2004, 11:59:15 PM Good point, Flutterby. Very, VERY good point. Why wait? The wonderfulness of Him is there -- NOW!
Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: ollie on January 17, 2004, 05:00:54 PM This is when Jesus is in Samaria and tells this women to give Him a drink of water. Hi,John 4:13 -14 " Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 6:33-35 " For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." So when Jesus says that you must be born of water and of the spirit. He is saying that you must believe in Him and have the Holy Spirit to be saved. Thank you so much. I had lost track of that connection about the water in my mind and could not reference the verses. I am sure i studied it in the past but it skipped me. Your reply brought it all back. Thanks again, Ollie Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: ollie on January 17, 2004, 05:04:33 PM I agree with what my pastor teaches on baptism. If you were the holder of a billion dollar lottery ticket (prior to being a Christian :P) and the rules on the back of that ticket said you must bring that ticket to the office within 24 hours and no later would you wait until 24 and a half hours to see how strict that office was about their rules? Well, NO! You would rush right in there the second their office opened. I refuse to do the absolute minimum or even try to see what I can get away with. What use is that? The Bible teaches water baptism. What great good is there in disputing such a simple thing? "The Bible teaches water baptism. What great good is there in disputing such a simple thing?"flutterby Yes. As in AGREE! Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: JudgeNot on January 17, 2004, 07:18:35 PM HOWEVER! If I may be the advocate of a different scenario:
A young lady (or old man) has just been saved. She has accepted Jesus Christ as the Lord of her life and believes with no doubt that He is who He says He is. She is completely filled with His love. On the way to her water baptism she is struck down and killed in a tragic accident. Is she still saved? Does she still receive everlasting life? Will our Lord turn His back on her who loved Him with all of her self? I don’t think so… Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: flutterby on January 17, 2004, 08:40:26 PM I don't think so either. I think God judges our hearts not our acts.
flutterby Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: Pilgrim on January 17, 2004, 09:54:50 PM Water baptism is not necessary in order to be saved. Baptism is something that one does after they are saved.
A few examples of those saved without baptism. The thief on the cross was saved without baptism. The immoral woman of Luke 7 was saved without baptism. The blind man of John 9 was saved without baptism. Zacchaeus in Luke 19 was saved without baptism. Pilgrim Title: water baptism, you just get wet. Post by: Ambassador4Christ on January 17, 2004, 09:55:19 PM 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For Christ sent me not to baptize WOW!!! Verse 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. WOW!!! This is the ONE Baptism Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corithians 12:13 NO WATER. HERE is a list of cults that do not follow Paul today because they require Israel's water baptism for salvation.... Jehovah's Witnesses , Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ, and others.... who you going to believe? Men or God? Title: Re:water baptism, you just get wet. Post by: tonytony on January 18, 2004, 03:00:00 PM you present something interesting here. lets consider Jesus in Matthew 3:15 he's our follower. peter and john urged water baptism and they were prophesied and appointed by the prophet isaiah and Jesus himself. jesus could have rebuke peter and john for doing so. at least jesus rebuked peter twice. once for taking off a man's ear and twice for discouraging Jesus from dieing on the cross. bear in mind that the apostles were on one accord in doctrine. acts 2:43. its not like are bad as it is today with so called denominations, cults, and split pharisee and saddicee doctrines. during the time in 1 Cor.1 the people were caught up on who was baptizing them so Paul needed to set order in place and tell them he's all about preaching the gospel which deals with water baptism and much more. he merely needed to tell him his sole purpose was not water baptism but rather the preaching of the gospel in general. imagine you going to country to country as an apostle and people falling out about you baptizing every new believer. that's obviously very stressful. its stressful enough going country to country with the gospel with your life in serious danger. i can bet my life that Paul is not going to fall out with Jesus, John and Peter urging water baptism. To do so is to conflict with Acts 2:43. even paul said God is not the author of confusion. 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For Christ sent me not to baptize WOW!!! Verse 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. WOW!!! This is the ONE Baptism Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corithians 12:13 NO WATER. HERE is a list of cults that do not follow Paul today because they require Israel's water baptism for salvation.... Jehovah's Witnesses , Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ, and others.... who you going to believe? Men or God? Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: ollie on January 18, 2004, 03:19:01 PM Water baptism is not necessary in order to be saved. Baptism is something that one does after they are saved. Were these people mentioned still under the old covenant and saved by Christ in person Himself? Does that make it different from the way we are saved under grace? A few examples of those saved without baptism. The thief on the cross was saved without baptism. The immoral woman of Luke 7 was saved without baptism. The blind man of John 9 was saved without baptism. Zacchaeus in Luke 19 was saved without baptism. Pilgrim Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: Sower on January 18, 2004, 03:37:43 PM Quote water is water and spirit and spirit... Amen!![/b] ...and blood is blood. Such has been and always will be the basis for redemption. Belief is the basis for salvation. Blood bought redemption via the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary alone, and the faith proffered by the word to attain that payment. Praise God!! Amen, Allinall. "What can wash away our sins? Nothing but the BLOOD of Jesus". Title: Re:water baptism, you just get wet. Post by: ollie on January 18, 2004, 03:39:53 PM 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. "For Christ sent me not to baptize WOW!!!"For Christ sent me not to baptize WOW!!! Verse 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. WOW!!! This is the ONE Baptism Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corithians 12:13 NO WATER. HERE is a list of cults that do not follow Paul today because they require Israel's water baptism for salvation.... Jehovah's Witnesses , Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ, and others.... who you going to believe? Men or God? 1 Corinthians 1:10. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15. Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. It is about division and not baptism. Paul says he is glad he baptized none of them because of their division and not standing in the unity of Christ. Paul did baptise as these verses show. Paul proclaims that the preaching of the gospel is why Christ sent him, not to baptise and it is infered from other scripture that baptism can be carried out by any brother in Christ. Pauls prime work from Christ was preaching Christ to the Gentiles. Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: Pilgrim on January 18, 2004, 04:40:50 PM Water baptism is not necessary in order to be saved. Baptism is something that one does after they are saved. Were these people mentioned still under the old covenant and saved by Christ in person Himself? Does that make it different from the way we are saved under grace? A few examples of those saved without baptism. The thief on the cross was saved without baptism. The immoral woman of Luke 7 was saved without baptism. The blind man of John 9 was saved without baptism. Zacchaeus in Luke 19 was saved without baptism. Pilgrim Hi Ollie, It doesn’t matter what covenant a person was under at the time of salvation. There is only one gospel and no more. If people before the cross were saved differently than those after the cross you would have more than one gospel. So if people before the cross were saved without baptism then people after the cross are saved without baptism. Hebrew 9:15 tells us the redemption of Old Testament saint was based in the New Covenant, not the Old. Heb 9:15 “And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.” Also, Hebrew 4:2 tells us that the gospel we now have is the same gospel that was preached to those wondering in the wilderness under Moses. Seeing that the Gospel is the same one for those under the Old Covenant as it is for those under the New then the conditions of salvation would be the same. So if Old Testament saints were saved apart from baptism then New Testament saints will be too. Heb 4:2 “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.” God bless Pilgrim Title: Re:no water baptism no salvation Post by: The Crusader on January 19, 2004, 03:52:55 AM Good teaching Ambassador.
HERE is a list of cults that do not follow Paul today because they require Israel's water baptism for salvation.... Jehovah's Witnesses , Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ, and others.... who you going to believe? Men or God? The Crusader |