"Have you ever heard of adoption?? By your responce I would say you never have."

Actually, I was adopted, right at birth. So, I know plenty on the subject.

I also know women who have been raped. Their lifes are forever altered. I can only image. Mental and physical changes a woman must go through. Its a woman's choice. Wrap your head around this one: would you rather have a woman go into a back alley with a coat hanger or have a doctor ready at a safe, clean place? Feel the reality kick in?

The Bible was written and recorded in a tiny corner of the Earth. Mean while, around the globe at the very same time were other thriving cultures with many different belief systems. The Christian belief system came from that small area I do not deny that. However, Christianity is not the only belief system that is correct.

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If Christianity is the only way then Billions of other people are going to Hell...can't you see how rediculous this is? In another post I quoted the guessimate of 2 billion Christians world wide. That means there are 4 billion people left. This is one reason not to believe one direction, I refuse to live life with blinders on.

Mat 7:13  Go in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are the ones entering in through it.
Mat 7:14  For narrow is the gate, and constricted is the way that leads away into life, and few are the ones finding it.

Exo 20:3  "You shall have no other gods before me."

There you have it: The Christian God acknowledging there ARE other gods. A jealous God? No, just a amount small people who are jealous and too proud which made their idea of God to be the correct way. Which is correct however, not for everyone.

Exo 20:5  you shall not bow to them, and you shall not serve them; for I am Jehovah your God, a jealous God[...]

Sorry but He gets the final say so, not man.

Grace and Peace!

Well, like I said, I don't wish to believe in a 'God' that lays out a plan like the one you described and quoted. If that makes you fell comfortable then thats great...I wouldn't want to live MY life like that.

My question:

"1. A woman is raped and gets pregnant; who wants a baby from this method?"

sincereheart's answer:

"The couple who have tried for years and can't have one? "

Give your head a shake. This is the most awful response and the most ridiculous statement I think I have every heard in my entire life. I nearly dropped my coffee in my lap when I read it! It virtually tells a <potential> rapist that its ok to rape as the woman might not be able to have a child from her current lover/wife.

I'll bet my entire life savings and my home that you'd think different if it happened to you.

The Bible was written and recorded in a tiny corner of the Earth. Mean while, around the globe at the very same time were other thriving cultures with many different belief systems. The Christian belief system came from that small area I do not deny that. However, Christianity is not the only belief system that is correct.

If Christianity is the only way then Billions of other people are going to Hell...can't you see how rediculous this is? In another post I quoted the guessimate of 2 billion Christians world wide. That means there are 4 billion people left. This is one reason not to believe one direction, I refuse to live life with blinders on.

Exo 20:3  "You shall have no other gods before me."

There you have it: The Christian God acknowledging there ARE other gods. A jealous God? No, just a amount small people who are jealous and too proud which made their idea of God to be the correct way. Which is correct however, not for everyone.

SS,

I belong to a church not made with human hands, the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. I doubt you will understand that, and I'm sure that this will give you something else to have fun with. I also attend a brick and mortar church building that has only an address for a name.

GRACE is unmerited and undeserved favor from God. The ultimate example of God's GRACE is the GIFT of Jesus Christ who died on the CROSS for you and me. Jesus Christ can fill your emptiness and rescue you from your life of sin and ultimate condemnation. You won't just physically die in your sins some day. Physical death is not the end. I realize you will also have fun with this.

Not to butt in here however, I'm going to  

I understand now. I understand there is a being/entity out there which created everything. But, it's not the Christian God or Allah or Buddha... Why are there so many different beliefs around the world? Because everyone is Not wrong and One single belief is not right. We are all right!...as long as we acknowledge there is a higher power at work. The God that is out there wants us to believe and also be comfortable with the path we choose to recognize God. None of us need a specific book or worldly figure telling us what to do when it comes to God.

Over analyzing and disecting one belief won't give you the answer. Call me crazy but, who really knows the true answer?

My 2 Canadian cents, (0.0155107 USD)

Sheelanagigs,

What is your view of abortion?

Wow, that's complicated.  

No its not complicated, abortion is murder, plain and simple.

I was intrested in the original topic but, I have to comment on this particular reply.

I totally 101% disagree, abortion is not murder. Let's bring up a couple scenarios;

1. A woman is raped and gets pregnant; who wants a baby from this method?
2. A woman finds out in the early stages that the fetus is not going to have a chance at a normal life; it's either got a disease or defect, etc.

It is her choice to decide what to do. She has to carry the baby to term, she has to go through major changes in her own body.

Its her body, nobody elses. Personally, being a male I don't feel I have a say on the subject however, I do have an opinion.

-=-

I to can quote something from the Bible, Koran, Vedas, Confucius, etc, etc. and find a line that 'would make sense' in explaining the beliefs or a specific moment. I realize most of my questions are unanswerable. I can't answer them either.

I like these quotes from the late Carl Sagan;

"There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny."

"Anything you don't understand, Mr. Rankin, you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it."

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."

On that last quote I agree and to add to it;

Politics and Religion are the worse things to debate, I should know this by now. Politics and Religion cause more division than good.

Thanks for your time,
Anduril

---

For the most part, I am at rest because I'm not being presured into Christianity. It also makes me uncomfortable hearing different points of view for what seems like different types of Christianity, atleast on the surface; ie: Protestant, Pentacostal, Catholic, Mennonite, etc.

Then all the other religions of the world, where did they come from? did God create them? All the people in the Bible are mainly from the Middle East, I'm pale and fair haired. Explain the different skin and hair tones? All the different languages? Difficult to understand why the Christian way (or any religion) is the 'right' way.

The top 20 I pasted below with figures from 2002;

1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
5. Buddhism: 360 million
6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
7. primal-indigenous: 150 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 14 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 6 million
14. Jainism: 4 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 3 million
17. Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
18. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Some of the above, if not all are considered 'man-made' religions by Christians. I'd say Christianity is on-top because they, at the time of the world conquerors; Spanish, English, etc. spread "the word" using fear and even death to those would did not 'believe'. That was human nature ...and still is, to a point.

Explain why a few hundred years ago the Philippines had their own belief system, then the Spanish invaded, conquerored them for 350 years and now they are mostly Christian and Muslim.

The above is a tiny portion of what happened all over the world for 100s of years. Do you believe in a god that would let this happen? It's not just Christian-based beliefs but, I use the history of Christians to make my point. Sure there were honest missionaries however, for the most part the past was brutal.

Thats why I asked; why would an all powerful god create the existance of evil. If a god was starting everything from scratch would it not make sense not to add evil to the equation. In other words, if there was no evil right from the beginning you'd never know the difference and you wouldn't have to appreciate good as good would be all around!

Wishful thinking on my part.

We didn't work our way to the top of the food chain to just eat  fruits and vegatables  

Honestly though, eat what makes your body feel good. Just be sure to exercise too!

What I find humerous about people who tell you how to eat is they rarely, if ever tell you how to exercise. They have people believing that its mostly the eating habbits will make you healthier. Atleast 30min Exercise a day on whatever eating habit you choose to go with is half the battle.

eg: I'd really like to hear what Atkin's would say about all the carbs Lance Armstrong eats.

-

Every hear a fruit or vegatable cry? Probably not however, life is life and fruits and vegatables are life. Lets stop eating all together so everything else on the planet can live. If you want to stop eating meat thats your choice.

I personally could not go without meat or fish. There are natural nutrients that you can't get ...unless you take supplements. Even then, supplements are more expensive and they cant cover everything a good salmon or steak provides your body.

While we are quoting songs, here is one for you:

Should I See
by Frozen Ghost

cover my eyes and ears
til it all dissapears
how can you judge for me
what i should hear and see
you take away freedom of choice
take away the right to voice
my beliefs and and all my views
you take away my right to choose

chorus:
(na na na na na naaaah...)
show me what should i see
(na na na na na naaaah...)
make my mind up for me

how can you censor my thought
what is right what is not
how is it you decide
what i should feel inside
quoting god as you discuss
what is right and wrong for us
you inundate us with your views
you take away my right to choose

(repeat chorus)

you take away freedom of choice
you take away my right to voice
my beliefs and all my views
you take away my right to choose

(repeat chorus )

...make my mind up for me
show me what should i see

Tim,

I guess by the Bible's definition I am lost. You also assume I am lost as you are set in one direction now. To be honest, I feel happier and even more at rest now that I don't have the full pressure of trying to be someone I'm not.

Tim, you mentioned in another forum that you were wondering why a group of atheists maybe be trying to change the minds of people here. You may have noticed I have not said you or anyone else is wrong. This would be a futile attempt by me (or anyone else). Yet everyone here has tried to suggest (directly or indirectly) that I am wrong with my beliefs...or in my case, not beliving in any one direction.

All I came here for is to get opinions and answers. It may or may not help me move towards God. I never make important decissions 'now', I always analyze. This method has always worked for me. It's not like I'm going to school myself about every religion in the world to see which one fits me - who would have time for that?

All things aside, if I live a good life and respect my family and friends that is currently all that matters to me. They are in the here and now, they are affected by my dissicions, they deserve my attention in every way. I'm not perfect, nobody is but, I can do my best.

As mentioned before, if God exists and can't see that I'm honest to others then fine, be that way. Creating people, setting them up to rise or fall and then deciding their eternal fate doesn't sound good to me especially if you have the power to prevent evil in the first place. Never introduce evil into the equation and the people you create wouldn't know the difference anyway. So why the need for evil, its just silly.

Anyway, I'll stop the beginnings of what might become a rant and end it at that.

Thanks for the welcome back Tim

I should have been more clear when I said I had tried to change my life to make my wife happy. At the very same time I did accept Christ into my life. I dropped all that I was for almost 2 years, a Very hard thing to do. I found myself getting uncomfortable...I was tired and getting sick more often...basically, stressed out. After a time I began to reassess my beliefs, and disbeliefs.  I wasn't living the life I was use to, I was lying to myself and my family - I realized Christianity was not the answer. After a few months my health and energy turned back to 'normal'.

Everyone has their good and bad points, everyone does something unacceptable during their lifetime. You have to find out what that something is and correct it or atleast accept it.  

A bit off topic for a momment:

Do you know what cancer is? It's a very universal word actually, and I don't mean in the cosmic sense Cancer is a problem or a way your body is telling you something is not right. This problem your body is having could be a stress of some type or something you have carried around with you for a long time.

Some people turn to violence, some people steal, some people get an illness. Depending on the person this is a way the body warns or lets you know there is something wrong. Some people don't know what the stress or problem is; the violent person kills and does so until they are caught. The theif steals until they are found out. The 'cancer' manifests until the person dies.  

Basically, the way you live your life and the things you do in that time affect you either in a positive way or a negative way.

Back on topic:

If I was to pretend to be someone I wasn't, especially to those I love and care for it would be my undoing. If would also be unfair to my family. I can't be Christian, just like you can't live the way I'm use to.

I really do appreciate the warm welcome and personal events people have shared with me. However, until I am 100% comfortable in whatever direction I go I can't see myself taking another route.

On a somewhat dry humor note; I'll know what to do if the Rapture happens

If God is all knowing like the Bible says he is then there is no such thing as 'free will'.

If God already knows the direction we are going to take it is because he layed it out ahead of time (All knowing past, present, future). Therefore, ours is a predetermined life.

I really hope life is not like that.

Thank you all for your comments and support, I really do appreicate it.

BlueLake,

You are right, I do have a slight tone but, not of anger, more like frustration ...and rightly so. I was raised with an 'open-mind' (how you define that is up to you ). I never had great debates of my or other people's beliefs. Observing people debate which way is right (for them) tore people apart further, sometimes it made them unite out of respect as well. My attitude is whatever works for You is best.

Everyone,

Here is the last 3 years of my life; I never questioned my wifes belief system nor did I try to change it. It is not my place to do so. I however, really did try to change my lifestyle to match hers. Doing this for almost 2 years has stressed me out emotionally and mentally. This is not a healthy way too live. So, I have dropped back into 'my way' of living...being honest, true and caring for my family. I Love my Family more than Anything or Anyone. If a Creator does not understand this then I don't want to understand them.  

It would be like you leaving God and all his teachings...could you even attempt that? I'm not saying I'm a better person, I'm just saying I gave it my best. It's just not me, I was never a team player either...I have always relied on myself. However, there are some things I have gained and I have met some very caring people, etc.

I promised my Wife I'd always go to Church with her and that promise will continue.

What happens after this life?  Will I eventually come to know God? Who knows. Life changes all the time. For right now I can honestly say I'm not comfortable with becoming a Christian. I have too many questions and too many doubts. If there is a God  then he/she knows this.

I can say one thing without a doubt: Nothing and no individual (of any form) can keep me from seeing my family after this life.
Bravado? Maybe.
Strong Spirit? Definately!