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Brother Love
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« on: May 19, 2004, 05:35:44 AM »

The Day of the Lord
What is it?
(Part 1)
By Cornelius R. Stam


The Scriptures have much to say about "the day of the Lord," but precisely what is the day of the Lord?

Generally speaking, of course, it refers to the time when the day of man, or "the times of the Gentiles," will be brought to an end and "the Lord alone shall be exalted" (Isa. 2:11,17). But will it include more than the actual return and reign of Christ? Will it include the prophesied tribulation period, during which God will bring Gentile rule to an end? We believe it will.

One pastor who teaches that the Body of Christ will go through the tribulation and that its Rapture to be with Christ will follow the tribulation, writes:

"The day of the Lord follows the tribulation and it is the day of the Lord's wrath upon those who `know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ' (II Thes. 1:Cool. It comes as `a thief in the night,' which is not so with the tribulation."

But this interpretation does not take into account all that is said in Scripture about the day of the Lord—and contradicts some of it.

When our Lord returns to earth in person, "in flaming fire taking vengeance" and "punishing" with "everlasting destruction," He will evidently dispatch His enemies forthwith. There is no evidence that this will cover a protracted period of time. Paul, describing the arrival of the day of the Lord in I Thessalonians 5:1-3 says nothing about the personal return of Christ, but he does describe a protracted period of suffering and trouble. Read this statement carefully:

"The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night, for when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

First, note that the phrase "thief in the night" is not used to describe suddenness, but unexpectedness. The thief plans his visit for the time when he will be least expected. This phrase is so used of our Lord's return to earth in Matthew 24:43,44. But I Thessalonians 5:1-3 states that the "destruction" of "the day of the Lord" will also come as "a thief in the night."

The Antichrist will have made a seven-year covenant with Israel and the world will enjoy three and a half years of "peace and safety." Then, unexpectedly, he will break the covenant and defile the temple, plunging the nations into the most terrible time of trouble they have ever experienced (See Dan. 9:27; 12:1; Matt. 24:21).

Actually God will take over as the "great tribulation" breaks, letting the nations of the world bring their uncalled-for rebellion to a head.

Next, note the phrase, "as travail upon a woman with child." When Antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel "in the midst of the week"1 (Dan. 9:27), "destruction" will break out suddenly. This does not mean, however, that it will run its course in a moment. Rather, it will "come upon them" suddenly, and run its course "as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

The travail of a woman with child takes time. The birth pangs increase both in frequency and in intensity until the child is born.

This, we suggest, illustrates the "great tribulation" far more accurately than it does the actual return of Christ, for during the great tribulation the world's troubles will indeed increase both in frequency and intensity "and they shall not escape." This "destruction," to take place during "the day of the Lord," will overtake the world of the ungodly unexpectedly, just when they are congratulating themselves as having attained "Peace and safety" (I Thes. 5:3).

Now please think carefully. Will anyone be saying, "Peace and safety" at the close of the "great tribulation"? Will anyone rejoice in "Peace and safety" as the battle of Armageddon rages? How, then, can this passage about "the day of the Lord" refer only to the return of Christ after the tribulation?

But when we see that "the day of the Lord" begins with, rather than after the tribulation, all is in order.

As we know, the seven years of the tribulation will begin with the rider on the "white horse" (Rev. 6:1,2—evidently Antichrist cf. Rev. 19:11—the true Christ), who goes forth "conquering and to conquer." Like Antiochus Epiphanes, he will "come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries" (Dan. 11:21). All will go well for him and he will bring to the world a kind of peace that will win him universal allegiance. "Peace and safety"! the world will exclaim.

But of the rider on the next horse we read: "and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth" (Rev. 6:4). Then follow war, famine and death (Vers. 3-8).

This "destruction" will come suddenly when, after three and a half years ("in the midst of the week"), Antichrist will betray Israel and break his seven-year covenant with them (Dan. 9:27), and will, like An-tiochus Epiphanes, desecrate the temple (Dan. 9:27; 11:31; Matt. 24:15; II Thes. 2:3,4).

There we have it! Our "post-tribulation" brethren say that "the day of the Lord follows the tribulation." Paul, in I Thessalonians 5:1-3, makes it clear that the day of the Lord includes the tribulation. They have men in the closing, most terrible hours of the tribulation saying, "Peace and safety"! They have the Lord's speedy judgment of the ungodly described by "travail upon a woman with child"!

No, the Rapture of the Body of Christ to be with Him will not follow the tribulation; it will precede it. Thus the Apostle Paul, after writing about the Rapture of the Body in I Thessalonians 4, continues in Chapter 5 with the word "But," to show the disrelation of God's prophesied "times and seasons" and "the day of the Lord," from that blessed day for which every believer should be "looking," "waiting" and "watching."

"Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (I Thes. 4:18), and "be not soon troubled" (II Thes. 2:2), for like the Thessalonian believers we are to "serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven...who hath delivered us from the wrath to come" (I Thes. 1:9,10).

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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2004, 05:36:53 AM »

The Day of the Lord
What is it?
(Part 2)
By Cornelius R. Stam


THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS
As we have demonstrated, the prophesied day of the Lord takes us back to the middle of the Tribulation when the "peace and safety" that Antichrist brings, will be suddenly broken, and the horrors of the "great tribulation" will come upon this world "as travail upon a woman with child."

With God's help, we will seek further to show from Scripture that the "day of the Lord" takes us back even to the beginning of the Tribulation period, for the first three and a half years of the Tribulation are the introduction to the rest.

Here we must ask what will cause men to say "peace and safety"? II Thessalonians 2 gives us light on this.

In Verse 7 the Apostle says:

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work, only He who now letteth [hindereth] will let [hinder], until He be taken out of the way."

We take this to be the Holy Spirit in the Church. Not that the Holy Spirit will not be operating on earth during the Tribulation, but He will be taken out of the way as a restraining force when the Church is caught up to be with Christ.

Verse 8: "And then shall that Wicked [one] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming."

The "then" of Verse 8 is also used in a broad sense, for it is obvious that while the full manifestation of Antichrist will take place in the midst of the seven years of the Tribulation, his destruction will take place at the end of the seven years. Doubtless his manifestation will be a gradual matter, for when he sits in the temple of God, posing as God (Ver. 4), he will already have held sway for three and a half years. See what the Apostle says about this deceiver in Verses 9 and 10:

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved."

It should be observed that not all wars begin with a battle, and God here begins to wage war on this Christ-rejecting world by simply letting them believe the big lie that they have always wanted to believe. How could God state more clearly that He will begin to judge this wicked world than by removing the restraining influence and giving men up to Antichrist? And, as we say, this takes us back to the beginning of the Tribulation. This first part of the Tribulation ushers in the judgments of God for grace rejected.

Though God has sent a message of grace to all nations, they have turned a deaf ear to it. They do not wish to acknowledge their sin and their need of Christ. In John 5:40,43, we have the words of our Lord:

"Ye will not come unto Me that ye might have life."

"I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

And this is exactly the case. The world has never received Christ, but when Antichrist comes they will go wild over him. He is described in the Book of Revelation as the rider on the white horse, going forth "conquering and to conquer."

Well do we remember the days of Hitler as one nation after another fell before his armies. He indeed went forth conquering, and many feared that he would continue "to conquer" until the whole world was under his sway. This, thankfully, did not take place, but with Antichrist his conquests will continue until he dominates all mankind.

It is of the utmost importance here to notice that this is God's judgment upon "them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved."

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thes. 2:10-12).

This, then, is included in "the day of the Lord" in its broadest sense, for this is how God will begin to bring the day of man, or "the times of the Gentiles [nations]," to an end.

Thus we do not agree that "the day of the Lord follows the Tribulation" and that only His return to earth is "the day of the Lord's wrath upon those who `know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'" God begins to judge man by giving him up to Antichrist; then comes the "great tribulation," the latter half of the seven years, and then our Lord's return to bring to a speedy end that which began as "travail upon a woman with child."

Thus, the day of the Lord, as it is spoken of in Scripture, may be referred to in a narrow sense, or in a broader sense. In its narrowest sense it refers to the reign of Christ on earth, but in its broader sense it includes the whole Tribulation period. As some theologians might put it, we have the day of the Lord proper, and the day of the Lord general, the latter including the reign of Christ and the Tribulation, when God begins to intervene in man's affairs by giving him the Antichrist, the big lie men have always wanted.

Any who have not acknowledged their sin and have not yet trusted Christ as Savior should remember that while God is gracious and patient, He will not allow man to go on forever rejecting and insulting His Son. And when His anger is finally aroused it will be "the cup of His indignation, poured out without mixture."

God is not the soft "do-gooder" of man's conception. True, He is the very personification of love, but He is also the personification of righteousness and justice and truth and, in anger against love spurned, He will finally judge this world by giving men up to the kind of Christ they have always desired—Antichrist. They will perish "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved" and "for this cause God shall send them strong delusion," by removing the restraints that have hindered the reign of Antichrist.

Since the Rapture of the Church could take place at any moment and bring to a close this dispensation of Grace, how important it is to trust Christ without delay, before it is eternally too late.

"The Father loveth the Son and hath given all things into His hands,

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:35,36).

"...behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2).

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." (Acts 16:31).

"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;

"And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (I Cor. 15:3,4).

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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2004, 06:01:01 AM »

Nice piece of work  Grin

Since the Rapture of the Church could take place at any moment and bring to a close this dispensation of Grace, how important it is to trust Christ without delay, before it is eternally too late.

I don't know where you got the writing before you wrote the above near the end of the posting; as the preceding piece puts the Rapture in mid-trib, with a non-shortened tribulation; a precise timing.

When you know that He will come for his own, namely figuratively speaking at the birth of the Child after the travails; the time the restrainer is removed.

When you truly realise and believe that scripture you know, that you know, that you know that there is an appointed time for this event, and that the exclamation of -the rapture could be tomorrow- is the opposite of that very finetuned writing that preceded the quote.
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2004, 06:33:59 AM »

Nice piece of work  Grin

Since the Rapture of the Church could take place at any moment and bring to a close this dispensation of Grace, how important it is to trust Christ without delay, before it is eternally too late.

I don't know where you got the writing before you wrote the above near the end of the posting; as the preceding piece puts the Rapture in mid-trib, with a non-shortened tribulation; a precise timing.

When you know that He will come for his own, namely figuratively speaking at the birth of the Child after the travails; the time the restrainer is removed.

When you truly realise and believe that scripture you know, that you know, that you know that there is an appointed time for this event, and that the exclamation of -the rapture could be tomorrow- is the opposite of that very finetuned writing that preceded the quote.

 Huh

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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2004, 06:50:47 AM »

 Grin

In short: do you believe an imminent rapture, or do you believe that we get raptured in the middle of the 7 year trib when the restrainer is taken away, which points to a specific time, as we as not-sleeping christians should be able to notice the start of the 70th week, right ?
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2004, 11:01:25 AM »

Quote
There we have it! Our "post-tribulation" brethren say that "the day of the Lord follows the tribulation." Paul, in I Thessalonians 5:1-3, makes it clear that the day of the Lord includes the tribulation. They have men in the closing, most terrible hours of the tribulation saying, "Peace and safety"! They have the Lord's speedy judgment of the ungodly described by "travail upon a woman with child"!

No, the Rapture of the Body of Christ to be with Him will not follow the tribulation; it will precede it.

I don't think this aligns with Scripture. People will be saying peace and safety because of the treaty with the AntiChrist (Dan 9). Reading Isaiah 2, the Day of the Lord has to happen after this, and it has to happen after the Abomination of Desolation is set up (Dan 9, Matthew 24, 2 Thes 2).

Isaiah 2:
10 Go into the rocks,
hide in the ground
from dread of the LORD
and the splendor of his majesty!
11 The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled
and the pride of men brought low;
the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

12 The LORD Almighty has a day in store
for all the proud and lofty,
for all that is exalted
(and they will be humbled),
13 for all the cedars of Lebanon, tall and lofty,
and all the oaks of Bashan,
14 for all the towering mountains
and all the high hills,
15 for every lofty tower
and every fortified wall,
16 for every trading ship
and every stately vessel.
17 The arrogance of man will be brought low
and the pride of men humbled;
the LORD alone will be exalted in that day,
18 and the idols will totally disappear.

19 Men will flee to caves in the rocks
and to holes in the ground
from dread of the LORD
and the splendor of his majesty,
when he rises to shake the earth.
20 In that day men will throw away
to the rodents and bats
their idols of silver and idols of gold,
which they made to worship.
21 They will flee to caverns in the rocks
and to the overhanging crags
from dread of the LORD
and the splendor of his majesty,
when he rises to shake the earth.

If it happens before the abomination of desolation is set up, then on the very Day of the Lord, the period of time when only God is to be exaulted and all the idols destroyed, we would have the setting up of the most detestable idol of all time:
2 Thessalonians 2:2-
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Paul couldn't make it any clearer, the Day of the Lord happens after the abomination is set up. Which happens at the mid point of Daniel's 70th week (Dan 9).

Looking at Isaiah 2 again:

Go into the rocks,
hide in the ground
...
Men will flee to caves in the rocks
and to holes in the ground
from dread of the LORD
and the splendor of his majesty,
when he rises to shake the earth.


This happens in Revelation 6:

12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

The Day of the Lord doesn't begin until after the 6th seal; meaning that all of the other seals happen before it. And it works out with what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians, that the gathering of the elect and the Day of the Lord will not happen until the man of lawlessness is revealed; fitting perfectly with what Jesus said about the rapture:

Matthew 24:
"Immediately after the distress of those days
   " 'the sun will be darkened,
       and the moon will not give its light;
   the stars will fall from the sky,
       and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

As we can see, the exact sign of the sun moon and stars happens in Revelation 6, at the 6th seal, and Jesus said immiadiately AFTER this we shall be gathered to him.
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2004, 02:02:21 PM »

I think there may be a few things being overlooked. The "Day of the Lord" is used a number of times, and is called several different things throughout Scripture, but the overwhelming references to it are summarized by describing it as a period of time in which God pours out His wrath upon this earth.

Names:
Dan. 12:1 - a time of trouble, such as never was. Echoed by Jesus in Mat. 24:21, Mark 13:19
Zech. 14:1 - the Day of the Lord
Jer. 30:7 - the Time of Jacob’s Trouble
Joel 1:15 - Destruction from the Almighty
Zeph. 1:18 - The Day of the Lord’s Wrath
Rev 6:16, 17 - the Wrath of the Lamb, the Great Day of His Wrath
Isa. 13:6 - The Day of the Lord, day of Destruction
Isa. 13:9, 13:13 - Day of the Lord, full of wrath, fierce anger, cruel
Ezek. 7:8 - God pours out His fury
Ezek 7:19 - Day of Wrath of the Lord
Rev. 14:19 - the winepress of the Wrath of God

Specifically, this outpouring of wrath is summed up in the 21 judgments of God, and is generically referred to as the tribulation period.

Purpose:
There are 3 very specific reasons for this outpouring of wrath. Because they are specifically named, there are no other reasons that should be sought after.
   1. To refine Israel and prepare her for  the arrival of their Messiah and His Kingdom (MK).
      Ezek. 20:37-38; Zech 13:8-9.
         Note: only 1/3 of Israel survives this time. Compare with Rev. passages.

   2. To test and punish the gentiles.
      Isa. 13:9, 11; Dan. 2:44; Rev. 3:10, 7:9-14; Mat. 25:31-46

   3. To prepare the earth for the Millennial Kingdom.
      Isa. 30:26; Psa. 72:16; Ezek. 36:34-35; Isa. 24:21; Rev. 12:9, 20:1-3

The "Day of the Lord" is not a single day, or a single occurance, but is comprised of the judgment/punishments.

The "Day of the Lord" is also referred to by context as encompassing the entirety of the Millennial period, up to and including the GWTJ, but again it properly BEGINS with the outpouring of His wrath.

As Joel puts it:
Joel 2:1   Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand;
(2)   A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains:
(11)And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp [is] very great: for [he is] strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD [is] great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

And Amos:
Amos 5:18   Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.


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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2004, 04:17:38 PM »

This dispensation of grace will end with the rapture of the body of Christ. It will be followed by the resumption of God's program and dealings with Israel, including the Lord's day of wrath and the kingdom reign of Christ on this earth. (I Thessalonians 4:13-5:10; II Thessalonians 2:1-17)

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For when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY"
(Romans 5:6).

"And you, being dead in your sins... hath He quickened together with him, HAVING FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES"
(Colossians 2:13).

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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2004, 11:00:12 AM »

This dispensation of grace will end with the rapture of the body of Christ. It will be followed by the resumption of God's program and dealings with Israel, including the Lord's day of wrath and the kingdom reign of Christ on this earth. (I Thessalonians 4:13-5:10; II Thessalonians 2:1-17)

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Hmm, did you read my post? It seems like your not reading all of Scripture and taking it into account.
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2004, 01:23:55 PM »

This dispensation of grace will end with the rapture of the body of Christ. It will be followed by the resumption of God's program and dealings with Israel, including the Lord's day of wrath and the kingdom reign of Christ on this earth. (I Thessalonians 4:13-5:10; II Thessalonians 2:1-17)

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This dispensation of grace will end with the rapture of the body of Christ?

So theres no grace for the ones who enter the Great Tribulation and overcome by the Blood of the Lamb?...if their overcoming by the blood of Jesus, then thats grace.

Some teachers dont even know what the dispensation of grace is. They say it was something only Paul seen... a mystery only for Paul? Well i have proof that Peter also seen this mystery not only Paul...Some dont even know what the mystery is...

It will be followed by the resumption of God's program and dealings with Israel....

Hmm i like this one...this is where God feeds all the Jews to the Anti-christ... right?

Amen brother: this is not directed at you...but at the false teaching of some.

And as far as grace goes... Gods grace runs from Gen: to Rev:

Gen 6:8  But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Eph 3:2  If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3  How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4  Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5  Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit?...even Paul himself says the mystery was revealed
unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

So much for this false teaching by some, who say only Paul knew this mystery. Some even go as far as saying there was no grace of God to the church until Paul came along!

Ultra dispensations? Followers of Paul?...be careful this is false doctrine at its best.

So what is the mystery? the mystery is the grafting in of the Gentiles to be fellowhiers of Gods grace...and Peter was the first to see this happen. God gave him a vision of unclean beast and told him to slay and eat...Peter didnt know what it meant at the time, but did understand once he seen the Gentiles recieve the Holy Spirit. Then he said God is not a respector of persons...for the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. Just like the day of Pentecost where it was given to the Jews. And remember God is going to graft the Jews back in...so their will be Salvation for the Jews. There even is proof in the bible that the Jews will be protected from the Anti-christ. The Woman of Revelation 12


Eph 3:4  Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5  Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs? Then who were the first heirs? I dont even have to answer that one. The Gentile Church needs to take heed that they dont boast against the first branches.

God bless you brother


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Brother Love
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2004, 05:26:15 AM »

This dispensation of grace will end with the rapture of the body of Christ. It will be followed by the resumption of God's program and dealings with Israel, including the Lord's day of wrath and the kingdom reign of Christ on this earth. (I Thessalonians 4:13-5:10; II Thessalonians 2:1-17)

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Thats what I believe Smiley

The rapture will be in the middle of the 7 year trib.


Brother Love Smiley

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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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