Hi Bronze
I have not argued with you at all. Ive read the answers ya give and go on to the next question. Cept for the 12 tribe thing. Also,I think it could come down to a heaven or hell thing. If people believe this rapsure thing, theyre expecting to see Christ before the bad guy gets here. If the "anti-Christ" arrives and brings down fire from the sky as scripture says he will and gives his explanation as to why youse guys are still on earth will youse except him, thinkin they are witnessing Christ?

Hi Ghost Writer
you wrote
The sabbath is arcaic(ghost writer cant spell).If we kindle a fire on the sabbath are we doomed?

BOO. Parables GW. The tounge is the fire.

EXOD.35  [2] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.[3] Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

PROVERBS 26  [20] Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.[21] As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.[22] The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

JAMES 3  [4] Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.[5] Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth![6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.[7] For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:[8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

JER.17 [26] And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places about Jerusalem, and from the
land of Benjamin, and from the plain, and from the mountains, and from the south, bringing burnt offerings, and sacrifices, and meat offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of praise, unto the house of the LORD.[27] But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.


EZEK.20
[10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.

[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

[23] I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;[24] Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.[25] Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

[35] And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.[36] Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.[37] And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

[47] And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will  kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein.[48] And all flesh shall see that I the LORD have kindled it: it shall not be quenched.[49] Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

Yes HE doth.          

Good morning Ghost writer
you wrote
We dont need to keep the law because Jesus fulfilled the law!!!

Well GW, just what does that mean?

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Magnify the law!  Does this mean to do away with or to make even greater? Isaiah 42 is speaking of Jesus.
Just read the whole chapter. Theres no question about it!

MATT.5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:[28] But I say
unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

As you can see in Matthew 5, Jesus made the commandments even greater

MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Looks like a filling full of the law to me and not a doing away with the law. JESUS said “not only shall thou not kill but whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment”. Matt.5 couldnt be any clearer. Jesus magnified the law!  HE made them greater!!! Jesus said “ Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled “  Please dont try and convince me that heaven and earth has passed. Why call HIM, LORD LORD and do not the things that HE said ?

To get a full understanding of that verse, we must define "fulfill."It is not a word of destruction but of completion and validation. Here is "fulfill" as defined in the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
1) archaic : to make full
2) a : to put into effect : EXECUTE
b : to meet the requirements of
c : to measure up to : SATISFY
3) a : to convert into reality
b : to develop the full potentialities of
synonym see PERFORM

Those defining terms make Matt. 5:17 come alive with meaning!  Christ came to fulfill, to put into effect,
to satisfy, to convert into reality, to develop the full potentialities of the law.

Aint the WORD of God great Ghost   writer

Hi Bronze
You wrote
Also notice where the elect are being gathered from...not the four corners of the earth, but ...
"and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

EZEK.37  [8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.[9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

theres the FOUR WINDS Bronze and it sounds like these people aint comin back from heaven and this scripture says its the whole house of Israel. Do ya still believe them to be all Jews?

Surely you dont believe the BRIDE of Christ consists only of Jews?

REV.21  [9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Hi Bronze
Dont know about Jehovah Witness beliefs but i have studied the 12 tribes. In fact in 2nd Kings the Jews are at war with the 10 other tribes. All through old testament scripture is quite clear about this.The tribe of Judah, is the line through which Jesus came.

Me again
Youve stated there will be 2 resurections in this 7 yr period. Will there also be 2 raptures.

MATT.24  [29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Another rapture when HE gathers HIS elect?

Hi Bronze
you posted
revival in history occurs on earth as the 144,000 Jews begin to proclaim
the message that the kingdom of Christ is at hand.

Theres only 24,000 that will be considered Jews. The rest will be the remant of the 10 scattered tribes. 12,000 from each tribe.

PROVERBS 4 [4] He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.[5] Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.[6] Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.[7] Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.[8] Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.[9] She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.

Yea, we all need grace

Jesus Christ, the same today, yesterday and foreever

PROVERBS 4 [4] He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.[5] Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.[6] Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.[7] Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.[8] Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.[9] She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.

Yea, we all need wisdom

Jesus Christ,the same today,yesterday and forever

Raphu
you wrote
This promise is fulfilled

Exod.16  [25] And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
[26] Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27] And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[28] And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
[29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30] So the people rested on the seventh day.
[31] And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

Cant seem to find anything about any promises?
Can ya help me out here?

Hey
Never heard that one before,Raphu.

Maybe you can help me understand Jer. 23

JER.23 [37] Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?[38] But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;[39] Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:[40] And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

(1)burden of the Lord - (2)everlasting reproach - (3)perpetual shame - (4)which shall not be forgotten

What is Jer.23 speaking of Raphu?

JER.17 [17] Be not a terror unto me: thou art my hope in the day of evil.[18] Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.[19] Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem;[20] And say unto them, Hear ye the word of the LORD, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by these gates:[21] Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;[22] Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
(1)Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day

LEV.24 [8] Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
(2)Every sabbath he shall set it in order - by an everlasting covenant

EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
(3)observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant

JEREMIAH 50[4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.[6] My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
(4)a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten- they have forgotten their restingplace

If you read JER.17 through Jer.23 you will see that these chapters are not speaking of ancient Israel. These chapters are speaking of The Day of the Lord, when Jesus returns to this earth.Even Yogi Berra would say its over on that day.

Mornin

ARE YOU CHASTENED

HEBREWS 12 [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth

PSALM 94 [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.[14] For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.[15] But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it.[16] Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

Chasten - out of thy law?? - If the law has been done away with, how can you be chastened?? who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?(lawlessness)

REV.3 [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock:if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.[21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(according to many christians there is nothing to repent of!! They say we are not under the law)

DEUT.8 [5] Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.[6] Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

DOES GOD CHASTEN YOU? ARE YOU KEEPING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? THE SABBATH? GRAVEN IMAGES?

MARK 7 [7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men.

I have not come to this board to say im right and your wrong.Only sowing seed. The WORD of God is perfect. Believe it. Seek it like fine gold. Drink water from your own well. The whole world has been decieved(thats not my opinion, thats what the WORD says) Believe it.

For more proof of this go back to Hebrews 3. Its Gods weekly sabbath that is being spoken of here.

HEBREWS 3 [15] While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.[16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.[17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell inthe wilderness?[18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?[19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

I suppose the thing to do now is to go to the old testament and find out why those  carcases fell inthe wilderness.
What rest will these people not enter into because of unbelief?

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.[11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even
live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

In both above scriptures

Out of Egypt and into the wilderness
Did not believe in HIS sabbath rest
They were consumed in the wilderness because of unbelief!

Good morn
Is it written in the new testament that we are to keep Gods sabbath day? Yes! If ya simply believe what Hebrews 4 says and not what many say it says

HEBREWS 4

[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Verses1-3 Those that believe do enter into rest! Dont come short of it! Have faith in the WORD!

Verse 4-5 He spoke of the 7th day of rest. Just as GOD did at the time of creation. The 7th day! Not any day ya happen to choose.

Verse 6-7 There remains some, even after so long a time, that have not entered this rest because of unbelief

Verse 8 If Jesus became their rest, would HE not have spoken of another day. I realize some bibles have changed the name of Jesus to Joshua in order to hide the truth.

Verse 9 The sabbath rest remains therefore TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD!This verse has got to bother those that wish to point to Hebrews 4 as the 1000 yr rest. Thats not here yet folks, so how could that be the rest that remains???

Verse 10-11 Enter into this rest (just as GOD did) .Look at verse 4! The 7th day! THE SABBATH!

Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says.
Just believe what it says and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from those with the spirit of unbelief.