when is enough enough?

[GKB]

when do you think a pastor should deal with his childs lack of respect for the lord? i know a pastor whose son is so disrespectful to the house of the lord, that he has sex in the trustees office...everybody knows, but everybody is afraid to say anything. i get chastised because i refused to fellowship with them....now somebody please answer, am i wrong?

[nChrist]

when do you think a pastor should deal with his childs lack of respect for the lord? i know a pastor whose son is so disrespectful to the house of the lord, that he has sex in the trustees office...everybody knows, but everybody is afraid to say anything. i get chastised because i refused to fellowship with them....now somebody please answer, am i wrong?

Hello GKB,

As far as I'm concerned, the congregation should have already confronted the pastor. If the pastor already knows what is going on, he has no business being the pastor of that church. There are Biblical requirements for a pastor controlling his family, and this matter must be resolved. If not, the pastor needs to be fired. Another option is for the witnesses to file charges, or call the police and let the police catch them in the act. You would need to supply the specific circumstances to your local law enforcement agency to see what charges would apply.

Some will say that my opinion in this matter is too harsh, but I really don't care. There are hosts of people who are desperate for the Good News of the Gospel of God's Grace. Many are dying in their sins. The devil should not be allowed to disrupt God's work. We do not allow the devil to disrupt God's work here for many of the same reasons.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:30-31 NASB  As for God, His way is blameless; The word of the LORD is tried; He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him. For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

[Soldier4Christ]

Sometimes it is necessary to be harsh in order to stop the devil from doing irrepairable damage.

[ZakDar]

Yeah, this kinda nonsense has got to stop. Get him outta there NOW! And I mean the pastor, who really isn't a pastor. Cuz if he was a pastor, he'd toss his son out into the street.

I even told my teenage children that exact same thing. I said, "If you think you're old enough to commit fornication, then you can go live your life as you please. But not under my roof!"

[Allinall]

In my old church, we had an assistant pastor who had, like, 7 kids.  3 of the most godly young ladies you'd ever meet, 3 of the most helion young men you'd ever meet, and one daughter who could have gone either way.  The name in the bible, "scorner" was fit for these boys.  He worked with them for quite awhile with no effect.  He came to the pastor 2 times with a letter of resignation, but was turned down.  One of the boys showed extreme disrespect to a teacher once, and his resignation was accepted.  I had extreme respect for that man.  I've always said that you can tell the measure of a man by his kids.  4 of his ended up good, and the other 3...dunno.  But that man's worth should stick out greatly in his boys hearts.  He quit his ministry to deal with something far more important...even closer than he already was.  Great man of God there.

This guy?  Needs a good lightening bolt strike...

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I'm a PK, preacher's kid, so I thought about this example a little bit. I think there might have been a new church cemetery if I had done something like this.  

I give thanks for my dad. He was old-fashioned and very dedicated to his ministry. He demanded respect, but he earned it first, and I couldn't dream of doing something like this. I was far from perfect growing up, but nearly all of the problems I caused were not in church. I am told that I turned around to the congregation and acted like I was directing the singing several times when I was little, but I really don't remember it.    However, I don't doubt that I did that.

OK, I know what you are thinking, PK's are always the meanest and worst kids in town. Well, I will repeat that I was far from perfect, but I was really a pretty good kid. The evidence of that is my dad allowed me to live.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 10:19-23 NASB  Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

[Soldier4Christ]

The evidence of that is my dad allowed me to live.

A certain amount of fear of appropriate reprisal along with a strong loving hand is a good deterrent. Many of our children today do not get this sort of training in their upbringing. I personally put the blame on liberal ideologies of how to raise a child.

My Dad was not a pastor. He was a deacon at one point in his life. If I had done anything out of line to dishonor God or the church in any fashion I knew that I would be removed from the church immediately and receive a lesson I would feel for a very long time.

Fear of such reprisal is no longer taught in many churches or homes.

We are taught in the Bible that we should fear the Lord. Many now teach love without reprisal. I personally believe that there should be and is a good balance of both.

[nChrist]

AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

Some even doubt or try to dismiss what the Holy Bible teaches about the discipline of children. However, this argument is impossible to make with the Holy Bible. Here's just a few samples:

Proverbs 22:15 NASB  Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13 NASB  Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

Proverbs 29:15 NASB  The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

Jeremiah 31:18 NASB  "I have surely heard Ephraim grieving, 'You have chastised me, and I was chastised, Like an untrained calf; Bring me back that I may be restored, For You are the LORD my God.

Job 34:31 NASB  "For has anyone said to God, 'I have borne chastisement; I will not offend anymore;

(The Most Harsh Example - Old Testament)
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NASB  "If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his hometown. "They shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.' "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.
 
(The LORD chastens those who HE loves. WHY?)
Jeremiah NASB 30:11  'For I am with you,' declares the LORD, 'to save you; For I will destroy completely all the nations where I have scattered you, Only I will not destroy you completely. But I will chasten you justly And will by no means leave you unpunished.'

Psalms 94:12-18 NASB  Blessed is the man whom You chasten, O LORD, And whom You teach out of Your law; That You may grant him relief from the days of adversity, Until a pit is dug for the wicked. For the LORD will not abandon His people, Nor will He forsake His inheritance. For judgment will again be righteous, And all the upright in heart will follow it. Who will stand up for me against evildoers? Who will take his stand for me against those who do wickedness? If the LORD had not been my help, My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence. If I should say, "My foot has slipped," Your lovingkindness, O LORD, will hold me up.

So, why do we chasten and discipline our children? We love them.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs NASB 3:12  For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

Hebrews NASB 12:6  FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

[Allinall]

The evidence of that is my dad allowed me to live.

A certain amount of fear of appropriate reprisal along with a strong loving hand is a good deterrent. Many of our children today do not get this sort of training in their upbringing. I personally put the blame on liberal ideologies of how to raise a child.

My Dad was not a pastor. He was a deacon at one point in his life. If I had done anything out of line to dishonor God or the church in any fashion I knew that I would be removed from the church immediately and receive a lesson I would feel for a very long time.

Fear of such reprisal is no longer taught in many churches or homes.

We are taught in the Bible that we should fear the Lord. Many now teach love without reprisal. I personally believe that there should be and is a good balance of both.

There's still a few of us that practice what's been preached from the pulpits of our churches.    My children are far from perfect, and I mix a great deal of mercy in my discipline, but if I had a son that did something like this, apart from resigning, I'd have him behind the toolshed, then in front of the church asking forgiveness or his butt removed from membership.  Ahem.  

My girls know when to obey Daddy.  They don't always do it, but then, neither do we.  So I remember the mercy, grace and love with which my Father deals daily with me, and I try to deal in like kind with them.

[Soldier4Christ]

Our Father is merciful if we are truly repentant. He cracks the whip pretty hard those that will not repent.

[Shammu]

Our Father is merciful if we are truly repentant. He cracks the whip pretty hard those that will not repent.

Amen.

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a sceptre (rod) of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, and [his power over them shall be] like that which I Myself have received from My Father;
Revelation 19:15 From His mouth goes forth a sharp sword with which He can smite (afflict, strike) the nations; and He will shepherd and control them with a staff (scepter, rod) of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath and indignation of God the All-Ruler (the Almighty, the Omnipotent).

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

1 Peter 2:20
[After all] what kind of glory [is there in it] if, when you do wrong and are punished for it, you take it patiently? But if you bear patiently with suffering [which results] when you do right and that is undeserved, it is acceptable and pleasing to God.

[GKB]

it was mentioned, that the pastored should be terminated! how do you terminate a pastor who is the founder of the church and under no earthly authority? i think the pastor is most proberly a good man, however, i heard him say on several occassions that he'd believe whatever his sons  told him. his son admitted that he was a master minipulator, but he'd never admit that to his father....p.s. they made this son the minister of music at this church.

[nChrist]

it was mentioned, that the pastored should be terminated! how do you terminate a pastor who is the founder of the church and under no earthly authority? i think the pastor is most proberly a good man, however, i heard him say on several occassions that he'd believe whatever his sons  told him. his son admitted that he was a master minipulator, but he'd never admit that to his father....p.s. they made this son the minister of music at this church.

Hello GKB,

If the congregation has no authority and the pastor refuses to resolve the problems after a reasonable period of time, the only other answer I'm aware of is for the congregation to leave the church empty. This life is too short to allow the devil to rob you of times to worship. The same would be true of allowing the devil to rob you at home of times to study, worship, and pray.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 John 5:4-5 NASB  For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

[GKB]

I THINK THATS GOOD SOUND ADVICE BLACKEYEDPEAS...AND I HAVE BEGAN MY JOURNEY IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, SO I DON'T HAVE A CHURCH HOME RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF ALL THE EVANGELIZING THAT I DO, BUT I TRUELY LOVE THE LORD...AND PEOPLE AHVE BEEN GIVING THEIR LIVES TO CHRIST IN MY LIVINGROOM, AND RIGHT OVER THE PHONE!