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Question: Are Seventh Day Adventists (SDAs) Christians or a cult?
Christian - 15 (48.4%)
Cult - 13 (41.9%)
undecided - 3 (9.7%)
Total Voters: 29

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Author Topic: Seventh Day Adventists  (Read 14908 times)
sincereheart
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« Reply #75 on: June 16, 2004, 05:59:37 PM »

Does submission = oppression?

When we are told to submit to Christ is that oppression?

 Huh
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Left Coast
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« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2004, 12:25:46 AM »

WOW, Candice
I don’t know you, so I could be misunderstanding the tone of your post, but it seems to me you might have a few male issues.
I hope not, that would tell me some one has not treated you well and that would be sad. Sad
I really don’t have issues with women, I tend to establish close, friendly, relationships with women easier than I do with men.
I am not a sexist, I have been able to take care of myself since I went to college.
Quote
And sexist pigs use the "Husband of one wife" interpretation to prove that women can't be the leaders of a church because they like to have the house cleaned and supper cooked when they get home.  As a general rule, men like to be waited on hand and foot.  They like it so they're not getting in an uproar about how the Bible has been translated.  
That is a very sexist comment. I honestly don’t know of any man that wants to be waited on hand and foot. I am sure they are out there, but I don’t know them.
Maybe it is a regional thing.
I was a bachelor until I was 29 years old. I have always been very capable of taking care of myself. When I got married I had to back off and let her take care of me some. I wanted to cook, but she considered the kitchen her domain.
I even offered to cook a romantic meal, without kids, but she wouldn’t let me. I like to cook, and I believe I am a better cook than her. But I gave it up for her, not because I wanted to be waited on hand and foot.
“sexist pigs use the "Husband of one wife" interpretation”, there is no other interpretation.

From the NIV
1 Timothy 3:2  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
From the TNIV
1 Timothy 3:2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his
wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

I personally don’t care much for the NIV or the TNIV but not because WOMEN were involved in the translation.
Women such as:
Dr. Karen H. Jobes is associate professor of New Testament at Westmont College in Santa Barbara. She holds a PhD in Biblical Hermeneutics from Westminster Theological Seminary (Philadelphia). Among her publications are Invitation to the Septuagint (with Moisés Silva, Baker, 2000), and the NIV Application Commentary: Esther (Zondervan, 1999). She has been a member of the CBT since 1995.
http://www.tniv.info/story/cbtmembers.php

Why the sexist pig comment?
Why not just accept Gods word, came from God.
Being the husband of one wife rules me out also, because I am divorced. Is that somehow sexist?
 
Quote
I would like to point out that even in your translation of the word Husband the last option says it can be either male or female.  Of course the sexist pigs would want to cover that up because they're so busy feeling superior to at least some creature on the earth.
You say you are a professional translator and interpreter, doesn’t context play an important part. That is unless you are now going to claim God allows women to marry other women.
All sorts of people accept Jesus as their savior, unfortunately few accept Jesus as Lord.
When a person denies Gods commandments, and laws, then they are denying His Lordship.  Sad
People really don’t like the Gospel, they desperately want to create their own kind of a gospel.
You keep making these accusations of sexism, but you have given NO support for your stand.  Angry
Maybe it is just your pain, but you seem to be full of hate.
Quote
Since it was taught that in the Kingdom of heaven there is neither male nor female, then what you have to do is understand that something must have been intended on the scriptures that you quoted that imply that women have a different status in society then men do.  Or else you undo  Christ's work.
In the kingdom of heaven there is neither male or female because we are ALL the bride of Christ. Women do not have a lower position they have a glorified roll in Gods plan.
We are not in heaven yet. I do hope to see you there.  Wink  
Quote
Now if you want to say something and justify saying it, then using the exchange words for words system can take you places.  But if you are seeking the Truth, maybe you might want to consider Paul would either laugh or become angry at the way his words got mangled.  Of course, there's not been enough men in this world to really want to defend the truth enough to defend what Paul really meant to say.
How did you become such an expert to know these words were mangled?
How long have you studied the Greek, or who is your source? Where did you come to your understanding?
If you interpret what do the texts say in those languages? Is it significantly different?
Quote
Helper which was used to describe the Holy Spirit, and that word Helper that was used as Overseer with a helper.  All I know is that I wasn't going about studying to find out if this was true, I wasn't trying to prove anything either way.  Actually, it is with great fear and trembling that I've approached this topic because its so much different then many men.  In my  interest of how words are translated over time I noticed Helper was Holy Spirit and another time that same word Helper was also translated as "wife" and I kept on noting this same thing through out my studies and one day I said, "wow, there's a concept"

WHERE?
Where have you ever found helper and Holy Spirit coming from the same words?
Where?
Quote
I'm finding out though, that, there's quite a bit of men in the world that want a slave woman.  
I am so sorry for you.  Cry
« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 12:49:59 AM by Left Coast » Logged

Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2004, 02:33:55 AM »

Candace and Left Coast-
I'm enjoying reading what you have posted in this thread.
I really don't know that it has that much to do with SDAs (yes, I'm aware that Ellen White is a woman and the founder of the SDA religion.)
I have started a thread on women in leadership roles and I would love to hear input from both of you (as well as others) on your thoughts about women's roles in and out of the home and the church.
Thanks!
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
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« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2004, 03:28:45 AM »

Candace and Left Coast-
I'm enjoying reading what you have posted in this thread.
I really don't know that it has that much to do with SDAs (yes, I'm aware that Ellen White is a woman and the founder of the SDA religion.)
I have started a thread on women in leadership roles and I would love to hear input from both of you (as well as others) on your thoughts about women's roles in and out of the home and the church.
Thanks!

Yes, Ellen was what started the whole thing.  Wink
I'm not too sure how much time I'll have in the next 2-3 weeks to contribute, I will be out of town on business.  Undecided
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2004, 03:30:48 AM »

Candace and Left Coast-
I'm enjoying reading what you have posted in this thread.
I really don't know that it has that much to do with SDAs (yes, I'm aware that Ellen White is a woman and the founder of the SDA religion.)
I have started a thread on women in leadership roles and I would love to hear input from both of you (as well as others) on your thoughts about women's roles in and out of the home and the church.
Thanks!

Yes, Ellen was what started the whole thing.  Wink
I'm not too sure how much time I'll have in the next 2-3 weeks to contribute, I will be out of town on business.  Undecided

That's too bad.
I was looking forward to reading your posts on the topic.
I hope you have a blessed and sucessful business trip.
I will pray that your travels will be safe.
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
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« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2004, 07:56:49 AM »

If Christ cooked a fish BBQ for His Apostles after His crucifixion. Why do you Adventists not eat fish?
Hmmm?


Don't know what your source is, but a lot of Adventists do eat fish, along with other meat (the clean meats, not pork).  Being a vegitarian is just a personal decision a lot of SDA's make.  

Here is a good link:

http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=63




What is wrong with pork?
Would you eat catfish, lobster?
Ostrich?

I used pork as an example.
What do you mean whats wrong with pork?  Ever heard the term kosher?  

See Leviticus 11 if you are really concerned with clean and unlcean foods.


I didn't realize you were Jewish.
I'm a Christian.

Colossians 2:14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Colossians 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

I know the Jews do not recognize Christ but as a Christian I do, therefore the shadows are no longer to be observed.
These things were nailed to the cross.

You only eat Kosher?

I'm not Jewish.  I referred to kosher since you were mocking me.  Here's a widely known fact:  Jesus was Jewish.  I would bet everything I have that Jesus didn't get up in the morning and eat a ham and cheese omlette with a side of bacon.  You think after He rose again, any of that changed?

Anyway, I am NOT judging anyone, and I never will.  It was this post judging SDA's for not eating pork.  What you do is between you and God.

What I choose to do is to try to understand the entire Bible and try to treat my body as a temple.  This means eating right, not smoking, not drinking, etc.  

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« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2004, 09:22:42 AM »

Some folks will twist scritpure to what ever degree they need to fit their own wishes.

 ***********************************


I live in SDA country. The most wonderfull hospital is just over the mountain from here. When your lying there WAITING what a comfort to have the nurses quitely ask if you would like to pray with them you. To know that the 'bases' of the hospital is trusting God for HIS healing.... The food was the worst ever....I have SDA friends and had some SDA family like all other groups man has developed some  in the group are christian some are not.

The SDA as a whole  is on the edge of cultism, salvation is not in keeping the law, nor is salvation in not keeping the law. Salvation is only  in HIM a free gift .....I have not seen a SDA, or anyone, keep the law as written .

Ex 20:8-10

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
KJV

From sunset friday to sunset saturday one keeping the law will not cause another to labour. We live in a service laden country. If one flips a light switch or 'flushes'  uses their computer etc they are breaking the law as written in verse 10.
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« Reply #82 on: June 18, 2004, 04:55:18 PM »

Click to hear commentary  on Ellen White

http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/foghorn/fogleg23.wav
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« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2004, 01:01:31 PM »

Hello Left Coast,

I was out of town on the business of giving away all that I own so I can be free to follow the Lord.  I'm afraid my friends will try to lock me up because of it so I didn't really mention the Lord.  It's about the Lord, but it's also about I'm tired of dragging all that stuff around.  The first time I moved I gave up everything because I get so tired of people being slaves to their stuff.  They're slaves to getting stuff and keeping stuff.  I promised myself I would never again collect stuff.  Five years later I have amassed massive amounts of stuff again.  I'm trying to get rid of it.  Sadly, it's in another state so I didn't have time to sell it, my job is here and I took off two days to go take care of it.  Instead, I gave it away in hopes and massive prayers that some good use will be put to it.  Now I'm exhausted.

Anyway, I'm not claiming to be an expert on Greek.  I'm just claiming to know that some translations can be laughable if they are translated word per word.  Especially when the concept that develops out of the translation is laughable.  And even more especially when there's something to be gained by the mis-translation--then it's not so much laughable as much as possibly evil.

I'll just go with laughable.  If a person just went with the translation the way those scriptures translate then it would be boiled down to women must trust in men.  The Bible tells us that Wicked are those who trust in men.  Also, how can you explain the female prophets and the female judges of old if it was against God's will for women to teach.  And how do you explain away the female leaders of churches in Paul's day?  And then when you come to think about it, there are so many interpretations of what "church" actually is.  But if the "church" is the body of Christ, like I believe it to be, then the interpretation of those scriptures is saying that women can't be leaders in the body of Christ and women can't be teachers in the body of Christ.  That's laughable.  Hence, there is evidence that the interpretation is correct EVEN if it is word per word interpretation, the concept is incorrect based on the rest of the Bible.

I really don't want to argue.  I'm just happy to be able to fellowship with fellow beleivers.  I feel utterly sick because I had to spend a whole weekend with folks that don't value the things that I value and feel that my ideas are unaceptable.  At least among Christians we can expect the confession that things should be a certain way.  Even if us Christians don't live up to our ideals, at least we have ideals.  I had to sit and listen to someone tell me that humans are animals and they will follow their animal desires and all that stupid stuff.  I can only take so much of it and that's when I'm glad to be back in the Christian chat room where we argue about petty things--at least they seem to be because the important thing is that Christ died for our sins and we agree on that.

Peace.
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« Reply #84 on: June 25, 2004, 11:32:24 PM »

Interesting thread. I didn't think SDA's could generate this much talk. I guess I was wrong Smiley
Jesus is our leader (not Ellen White), and if that classifies us a "cult" then that is fine with me.

From sunset friday to sunset saturday one keeping the law will not cause another to labour. We live in a service laden country. If one flips a light switch or 'flushes'  uses their computer etc they are breaking the law as written in verse 10.
We do live in a "service laden country". Many other countries would also fall into this category. But remember God never gives us more than we can bear. It does not matter what the crowd does on the Sabbath. We have a responsibility to do as God commanded.

The Sabbath is about centering our thoughts and actions on God, and I don't see how turning on a light switch or flushing violates that. If God knew that a trivial task such as turning on a light switch would violate the Sabbath, He surely would not have asked us to keep it holy. God would never ask the impossible. One of the reasons I look forward to the Sabbath is because I like the break from normal life. When kept, the Sabbath is truly an uplifting spiritual experience. God promises a blessing when we keep the sabbath
"  If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:  Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." Isaiah 58:13,14 KJV
I think we all agree that God keeps his promises.

Perhaps the best example on how to keep the Sabbath is found in Jesus. The rulers of Jesus' time imposed strict rules and restrictions on the Sabbath. They did not see that such rules only made the Sabbath a burden. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.
In Matthew 12, the disciples were hungry so they picked grain on the Sabbath. Obviously this involves more work than turning on a light switch yet when the Pharisees began to accuse them, Jesus defended the disciples’ actions.

I have not seen a SDA, or anyone, keep the law as written .
You may have overlooked The Man himself. Jesus saw it fit to keep the commandments.
"I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 15:10
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« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2004, 11:56:59 PM »

 You really dont keep the sabbath.

 And ifGod knew? Now i coudl be reading you wrong but there is no way God didn't know, correct?
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« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2004, 01:50:17 PM »

You really dont keep the sabbath.

 And ifGod knew? Now i coudl be reading you wrong but there is no way God didn't know, correct?

My point is simply this: God would never ask the impossible. God knows everything, and He knows that it is possible to keep the Sabbath.  "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13 KJV

You really dont keep the sabbath.
Do you think God would give us a law which is impossible to keep ?
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« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2004, 02:33:33 PM »

SDA pride themselfs on the keeping the sabbath. And yet you are saying the law is too hard to keep. The law is kept or it is not kept. You at least have said you dont keep the sabbath as written. The law is too hard?  Lets see if you can do all things throught Christ then surly you can keep the sabbath as written.

Personaly i dont have a problem with what ever day or days one worships as we should have His praises contiunaly in our mouths...

God sent Christ to fulfill the law because we cant. HE finished the job the job man can't.

I have seen SDA so full of the law they are not trusting in Christ. I have SDA friends who i believe are christian.
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« Reply #88 on: June 26, 2004, 02:47:57 PM »

SDA pride themselfs on the keeping the sabbath. And yet you are saying the law is too hard to keep.

Firstly, SDAs take pride in loving Jesus. Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments"

Secondly, where have I said that the law is to hard to keep?
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« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2004, 04:30:33 PM »

impossible  


Your word was impossible i used the word hard because i cant spell well so i went and copied from your post the word impossible.

You did not seem to get what i was saying..... let me try again.  flipping the light switch is not labour. The use of  electricity causes labour.

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

I wonder how many labours are working at the different locations that it takes to allow all of us internet access. You dont go to  the local resturant for  eats on the sabbath correct?

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