Lucifer vs. Satan

[Mr. 5020]

Are Lucifer and Satan the same entity?  Although traditionally this is correct, I have read many disagreeing views.  The reason they say this is because of two key verses (only one of which I will list for time's sake).

Jude 6:  And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

So, if all the fallen angels are bound, how can fallen angels be demons, and how can Lucifer be Satan?

[Knox]

"Lucifer" makes only one appearance in scripture, in Isaiah 14. Most people today now understand that it is a reference to a Babylonian king. Which king would depend on when Isaiah was written.

http://www.bbie.org/english/Study06GodandEvil/D19Lucifer.html

[Mr. 5020]

"Lucifer" makes only one appearance in scripture, in Isaiah 14. Most people today now understand that it is a reference to a Babylonian king. Which king would depend on when Isaiah was written.

http://www.bbie.org/english/Study06GodandEvil/D19Lucifer.html

Actually, he is also in Ezekiel 28, which states that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden.

[Knox]

Lucifer appears only once, in Isaiah 14, in translations based on St Jerome's 4th century Vulgate. I have the Knox version, which is a direct translation of St. Jeromes Vulgate, and Lucifer does not appear in Ezekiel.

So obviously in whatever translation you're using a word other than Heylel Ben-Shachar which is what St. Jerome translated as Lucifer, has been translated as Lucifer.

I wonder why? "Lucifer" is a Latin word derived from lucem ferre which means 'bearer of light'. The planet Venus was known as Lucifer in Roman astrology before it was called Venus.  What is a Latin word doing in your translation of a work that was written before there was a Latin language? What I'm trying to say, not very well lol, is that if your translation is not based on the Vulgate, the word Lucifer should not appear at all. If it IS based on the Vulgate, it should appear only once in Isaiah. It would seem to have been translated by someone who has already made the error of thinking that Lucifer means Satan.

Some further evidence that Lucifer = Satan is based on a misunderstanding of scripture and is only later Christian tradition is that Lucifer was at one time a Christian name. In the 4th century a contemporary of Eusebius, an early Christian leader, was actually named Bishop Lucifer, so it seems clear that at that time the name Lucifer didn't have any negative connotations.

[Mr. 5020]

I read the KJV, which appears to be the most read translation of this forum (see translation thread).

[Royo]

There are 2 verses that have always made me feel that Lucifer and Satan are the same. They are.
"How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning." [Is. 14.12]. And, "I saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven." [Luke 10.18]. You could also add, "So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan..." [Rev. 12.9]. Please also read the surrounding verses in all of these.
Love in Christ.  Roy.

[Knox]

I read the KJV, which appears to be the most read translation of this forum (see translation thread).

Well the KJV translators acknowledged a debt to St Jerome's translation. And anyway, what KJV do you have where Lucifer appears in Ezekiel?

[Knox]

There are 2 verses that have always made me feel that Lucifer and Satan are the same. They are.
"How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning." [Is. 14.12]. And, "I saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven." [Luke 10.18]. You could also add, "So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan..." [Rev. 12.9]. Please also read the surrounding verses in all of these.
Love in Christ.  Roy.

OK in reading the surrounding verses, please note that in Isaiah 14:16 this Lucifer is seen to be a man.

"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms..."

[Royo]

OK in reading the surrounding verses, please note that in Isaiah 14:16 this Lucifer is seen to be a man.

"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms..."

Yes, I have noted that long ago. And it is my belief that it is refering to the anti-christ, who will make the earth to tremble and shake kingdoms.

[Knox]

I think the tense is wrong. This man already made the earth tremble. Figuratively speaking.

Anyway, Easton's Bible Dictionary agrees that Lucifer refers to a king of Babylon

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Dictionaries/EastonBibleDictionary/ebd.cgi

Nave's Topical Bible says that Lucifer refers to Nebuchadnezzar

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Concordances/NavesTopicalBible/ntb.cgi?number=T3128

[Royo]

You may be right.
Lucifer vs. Satan is not something I have really studied.
That has just always been my thoughts. But you have given me something to study about now.
Love in Christ. Roy.