Symphony,

The thing that never sat with me was the "TWO" Second Comings. I thought there was only one second coming? The pre-tribulationist view teach Jesus is coming to snatch us out before the tribulation, then he will come again to get those born again during the tribulation ( I thought the Holy Spirit was suppose to gone?) It never added up.

I got a book a number of years ago entitled "Rapture Prophecy or Heresy" by Col H. Speed Wilson. He gives the history of the origins of the "secret rapture", which incidently was not a known doctrine to the church for the first 1800 years. Speed gives a challenge to everyone who reads his book and the corresponding Scriptures, and can still "prove" the rapture theory $10,000.

I have in the meantime done some research of my own ( by the mouth of two or three witnesses....) and found even more evidence that the Pre-Tribulation doctrine was non-existent prior to 1830.

In 1830 a woman named Margaret McDonald in Scotland had this "vision" of being caught up....she was also a member of Edward Irving's ( a defrocked minister of the Church of Scotland) Catholic Apostolic Church. This new doctrine eventually was adopted Darby the father of modern dispensationalism.  

For more lengthy information log unto

http://www.ncinter.net/~ejt/

There's alot more on the web.

Psalm 119

Daredevil,

Does this mean you will be going?

Psalm 119

Symphony,

President Bush has really been fence straddling over homosexuality. On one had he wants to keep marriage  between one woman and one man. Yet, he has members from the Log Cabin Republicans ( a sodomite group) meet with him and his staff on a regular basis. He is inclusive.

Pslam 119

Symphony,

I would prefer to be called a fool for Christ.

Yes, we will become more and more marginalized. The "tolerant" will/have become "intolerant" of us. All religions, all "sexual orientations" (sodomites) will be tolerated.....but with the true believer, the cry will be ; "bring back the lions".

Psalm 119

Christians from all over the country are preparing to make a trip to Montgomery, Alabama (if need be ) to protect the Ten Commandments. Would you be willing to participate? Read more

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWS/StoryAlabamavigil29w.htm

In our nation you can "convert" from Christianity to anything with no fear of retaliation. However, if you live in a Muslim nation and convert to Christianity the consequences can be death. Read the latest on such an atrocity perpetuated on a brother.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33819

Psalm 119

Twobombs,

I would agree with you that "spiritually" speaking Revelation 17&18 fits the U.S.A.to the tee. We are the spiritual Babylon.(physcial; no)

The point I've been trying to make is that yes! persecution can and will occur in this country. American's will not be exempt from what lies ahead. It saddens me to see so many Christians apathetic to their brothers and sisters around the globe who  suffer for the cause of Christ. Yet, in America there is this arrogance that we are untouchable (Sept 11,2001 proved otherwise).

God is not an American, is my point.

Psalm 119

Ambassador,

Yes, harpazo means to catch up...

Check this site out if you get a chance:
http://www.reformed.com/pub/rapture.htm

I'm going to do a little research on a man named Dr. Robert Norton who gave a handwritten account of Margaret McDonald, the lady who "received" this new doctrine in the 1830's called what is now known as the pre-tribulation doctrine.

The nagging question I still have is why the Church of Jesus Christ did not acknowledge this doctrine for the first 1800 years after the death of Christ?

Psalm 119 ( a former pre-tribber)

Sorry I didn't notice this post before......

These "gods" all required one thing; death. And the death was usually the death of the first born. In today's terms that usually translates into abortion. And it's often the firstborn that is murdered by abortion. As with the followers of Chemosh, Molech, and Ashtoreth, they believed they would receive earthly rewards for their first born.....today people believe if they kill their offspring they will receive earthly rewards....i.e. finish college, gain wealth etc.

As Solomon said, "There is nothing new under the sun"

Psalm 119

Just an update.....wondering if any of you historians out there have found any information alluding to a rapture...prior to 1830.

Psalm 119

Ambassador4Christ,

I'm still patiently waiting.........

Psalm 119

Dear brothers,

Does not the scripture state in Ephesians 5:11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them."

To expose the works of Benny Hinn is not unloving...quite the contrary, it should be a warning for those who would follow a false prophet. His false gospel is leading people to hell.

Should not one speak up to rescue them?

Psalm 119

Dear Heavenly Father.....I come to you today and ask for your mercy on this lady and her child. I pray that this child that was created in your image would be allowed to stay in the womb and grow and thrive. May this child be a testimony of your love and grace.

In Jesus Name
Psalm 119

Terri,

I wanted to add ,that you should continue in what you know to be right. Continue to train up the children in the way they should go. This may be the cross that the Lord would have you carry right now. The cross can get heavy and burdensome, but it does bring forth the fruit of righteousness.

I remember the years I cried to the Lord to change my husband. Guess what ? He wanted to change me first. Yes, I would lose my patience and sometimes have no hope. But the Lord carried me through those years, and He brought me to the other side. God is faithful!

If you would like to IM me and talk further I would be delighted to talk with you.

Love in Christ,
Psalm 119

Ambassador4Christ,

Now come on.....that answer will not suffice. Let's dig a little deeper into the Word to find the answer.  The last time I checked, the good old U.S.A. was never mentioned in the Bible. Let's think Biblically A4C!

Psalm 119