cris wrote:
Okay then, are you saying that at the moment of His death, they changed courses-------just like that, from obeying the law, to the New Covenant of grace?  I think I must be missing a point somewhere.  Sorry.

nana:
Wondering what point that might be.  When Jesus died, He said "It is Finished"

Col 2:13 ¶ And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,
14 blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;
15 having stripped the rulers and the authorities, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in it.

cris wrote:

I'm wondering how the following verses fit in to this tithing question.

Matt: 23:------2  The scribes and Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;  3  therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things, and do not do them.

nana:
Until Jesus died, the OT Law was still valid  

Mark 14:23 And taking the cup, giving thanks, He gave to them. And they all drank out of it.
24 And He said to them, This is My blood, that of the New Covenant, which is poured out concerning many.

shalom

Bob wrote:
Though I don't think the catholic church is the new Levite priesthood.

nana:
I don't think she stated it was either - it was probably a quote.

And I agree, it is not about a set amount, but giving from a cheerful heart as we are led by the Holy Spirit.  That can include your time, possessions, money, prayer, etc. - the sum total of all of your life as a living sacrifice.  We owe God a debt we cannot pay.

I am curious, Bob, if you read the articles  

shalom, nana  

silver wrote:
God’s eyes are too pure to look on evil (Hab 1:13).  

nana:
Hab 1:12 ¶ Are You not from aforetime, Jehovah our God, my Holy One? We shall not die, Jehovah, for You have appointed him for judgment. And, my Rock, You have established him for correction.
13 You are of purer eyes than to behold evil, and You are not able to look upon vexation. Why do you look on those who deal deceitfully? Will You be silent when the wicked swallows one more righteous than

I believe that this is referring God not doing evil from an evil heart - as in sin.  Man looks at or sees sin and does it because he is evil minded [unregenerated by the Holy Spirit].  Jesus said that evil comes from the heart where evil thoughts and actions originate [Matt 12:35]

God does do evil and has created evil - but it is not because He is evil, but rather evil deeds against those who receive judgment from Him, Who is Righteous and Who is the Judge of all.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their vexations; and I will bring their fears to them; because I called, and no one answered; I spoke, and they did not hear. But they did the evil in My eyes, and chose that in which I had no pleasure.

2Ki 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I [am] bringing [such] evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.

Silver wrote:
Yes tqpix, you are correct in saying that an omnipotent being cannot do everything.

nana:
From my little puny perspective, the only thing that God cannot do is sin.  Other than that, the discussion is really a moot point.

If God created the universe, is Infinite, Boundless, cannot be contained, is Unapproachable Light, is the Almighty One, the Holy One, the Redeemer, the Alpha and Omega, etc ad infinitum - how can you say He cannot do everything?

If He created the rock, He sure can lift it - DUH!!!!!!!!!!

Job 41
1 ¶ Can you draw out the leviathan with a hook, or hold down his tongue with a cord?
2 Can you put a reed rope into his nose, or pierce his jaw with a thorn?
3 Will he multiply pleas for help to you; or will he speak soft words to you?
4 Will he cut a covenant with you; will you take him for a slave forever?
5 Will you play with him as with a bird; or will you tie him up for your maidens?
6 Shall your partners bargain over him; shall they divide him among the merchants?
7 Can you fill his skin with barbs, or his head with fishing spears?
8 Put your hand on him; remember the battle; you will not do it again!
9 Behold, his hope has been made false; will he not be cast down at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce as to dare to stir him up. Who then is able to stand before Me?
11 ¶ Who has gone before Me that I should repay? All under the heavens, it is Mine!
12 I will not keep silent as to his limbs, or the matter of his powers, or the grace of his frame.
13 Who can take off the face of his covering; who can come with his double bridle?
14 Who can pry open the doors of his face? Terror is all around his teeth.
15 The rows of shields are his pride, shut up with a tight seal;
16 one is so near to another that no air can come between them;
17 they are joined to one another; they clasp each other, so that they cannot be separated.
18 His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are as the eyelids of the dawn.
19 Out of his mouth go burning torches; sparks of fire fly out.
20 Smoke goes out of his nostrils like a boiling pot fired by reeds.
21 His breath kindles coals and the flame goes out from his mouth.
22 Strength abides in his neck and terror dances before him.
23 The folds of flesh cleave together, cast firm on him; he cannot be moved.
24 His heart is cast hard as a stone, even cast hard as a piece of a lower millstone.
25 The mighty are afraid from his arising; from the crashings they miss the way.
26 The sword overtakes him, but will not hold firm, nor the spear, the dart, or the javelin.
27 He counts iron as straw, bronze as rotten wood.
28 A son of a bow cannot make him flee; slingstones are turned to stubble by him;
29 darts are counted as stubble; he laughs at the shaking of a javelin.
30 Points of potsherds are under him; he spreads sharp marks on the mire.
31 He makes the deep boil like a pot; he makes the sea like a pot of ointment;
32 he makes a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be grayheaded.
33 There is nothing like him on earth, one made without fear.
34 He beholds all high things; he is king over all the sons of pride.

whoa . . .  

Shalom, Nana

I found this very thorough scriptural look at tithing - any thoughts?

http://www.seekgod.ca/tithing.htm

For the last 2000 years, the disciples, including Paul have had their lives exposed on the pages of Scripture.  "Somehow" they have held up just fine.  Integrity, righteousness, and holy living before God is what counts.

1 Tim 5:20 Those who sin, rebuke before all, so that the rest also may fear.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

cris wrote:
If I repeat the negative statements written about others, not having heard it directly, the bible would call me a gossip.  

nana:
So then, Paul was a gossip.  He wrote about other people exposing false teachers to the churches at large and told them to read his letters to others.  So for 2000 years we are reading gossip, if we go by that definition  

cris wrote:
It's just my opinion, but I think articles like that constitute slander and judgmentalism.

nana:
I am curious as to how the words that are quoted from these people themselves about Jesus Christ and His redemptive work on the cross that are in conflict with Biblical Truth, constitutes slander and judgmentalism.

The Bible instructs and mandates us to bring those who are in opposition to it's truth in the open and expose them as enemies of the Gospel - which Paul did time after time.

cris wrote:
a long time ago God told me to extract the good and let go of what wasn't.  Everyone disagrees with what someone else says on occasion.  I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

nana:
Nowhere in the Bible are we taught that God expects us to dig through the garbage can to pick out Histruth.  Jesus said if the tree is corrupt, no good fruit can come of it.  He was referring to false teachers and false prophets.  All of the names you listed are one or the other are both.  We are called to withdraw [1 Tim 6:3-5]

I an across an interesting article awhile back about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It seems the saying originated back in the Victorian days when baths were only done once a year    One tub full of water for the whole family.  Dad started, then mom, and on down the list of kids - baby was always last.  By the time the baby was "bathed", the water was so dirty that you couldn't tell what was baby and what was dirty water.  Hence the saying, don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

You cannot mix truth with deception, you cannot make the unholy, holy - you only contaminate the truth.

Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean [thing] out of an unclean? not one.

Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people [the difference] between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

shalom, nana

Glad to be of help.  The first 3 links are specific to Benny Hinn, the next two to Joyce Meyer, and the last two links have many articles exposing false teachers, false teachings, and false prophecies [including the Crouches who promote this stuff on TBN like a flood of deception].

http://www.afcministry.com/Benny_Hinn.htm

http://www.myfortress.org/BennyHinn.html

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/benny_hinn.htm

http://www.myfortress.org/JoyceMeyer.html

http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm

http://www.cephasministry.com/evangelists_2.html

http://www.seekgod.ca/index.htm

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words (those of our Lord Jesus Christ), and to the doctrine according to godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing. He is sick concerning doubts and arguments, from which comes envy, strife, evil speakings, evil suspicions,
5 meddling, of men whose minds have been corrupted and deprived of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness. Withdraw from such.

Shalom, nana

cris wrote:
I've listened to Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, and some of the others who were mentioned and have to disagree about them preaching another gospel. No one is perfect (yet) and we all make mistakes.  I've read a couple of J. Meyer's books and they were a blessing to me.  I've also read some of Hinn's books-------------they blessed me, too.  I don't consider any of these books to be bad fruit.  They preached the Word of God.

nana:
When Paul said that satan comes masquerading as an angel of light, he was talking about those who would have an element of truth wrapped around deception.

When people like Hinn, Meyers, and the Crouches teach a taste of truth, that is the hook to get you to listen, to believe the lie.  satan has always spoken the truth with a twist [Eve].  This is the corrupt tree that Jesus is talking about in Matt 7:15-20.

If Hinn, Meyer, and the Crouches do not believe that Jesus is God Almighty, we are warned in God's Word to get away from them.  Jesus said - if you are not for Me, you are against Me.  You cannot believe a lie about Jesus - no matter what words come out of your mouth - you are preaching another gospel and do not have the truth.  It is contaminated and unholy.

shalom, nana

symphony wrote:
If you lose your mind, can you still be a believer?

nana:
God looks upon the heart.  We live in a frail and corrupt world where the flesh is constantly consumed.  Our minds can be affected by corrosion and disease, just as the body is, that does not mean we don't belong to God - if we are one in Him, we are His forever, no matter what happens to the mind.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will in no way cast out.
38 For I came down from Heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 And this is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the last day.
51 I am the Living Bread which came down from Heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread, he shall live forever. And truly the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Shalom, nana

Hope you don't mind if I drop in and put a little different slant on this.

As was pointed out, the context is false prophets/teachers.

A false prophet/teacher would be one who does not believe that God was made manifest in the flesh as His Son - Jesus Christ.

We are to test the spirits.  If the spirit of whomever is doing the healing does not proclaim that Jesus was, is, and always will be God, he/she is a false prophet/teacher.  Anyone who is taught under that spirit will do the same works that the false person is doing it under.

The gifts of the Spirit are as the Spirit wills, not by man's desire or appointment.  The false prophets and teachers today that are in these huge healing ministries are not of God.  They are false.  I am referring to the likes of Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, Roberts, Dollar, Crouches, Joyce Meyer - to be blunt - the Word of Faith movement and much, if not most of the currently coined "Charismatic" movement.

That whole venue was birthed by those who teach and believe that Jesus was born only human.  When He died, He *died spiritually*, took on the nature of satan, and then He was reborn, raised by God to be "a" god.  Christians are also reborn and are little gods with the same power as Jesus had.  Therefore; they have what is called the "believer's authority".  This doctrine teaches that you have the power to heal and cast out demons.

So how does satan cast out demons?  Very simply.  he imitates by making it appear as if those demons have departed.  he is the great imitator - masquerading as an angel of light.  

I have talked to many, many people who have had so-called deliverences from demons.  They always, always come back.  Usually within two weeks, sometimes longer.  They just hang around waiting for a person to weaken and then re-enter.

These people then go back again and again to be delivered.  Same with the healing thing.  Been there, done that.

So what does that do to the salvation issue?  I don't know,  to be honest.  Only God knows the heart.  I do know that He will use true believers to heal and cast out demons as He wills.  And sometimes it looks like the exact thing as you see coming from the other side.  

It's all about the fruit.  If you look at the fruit of people's lives, they must measure up to the standards of God's Word.  Sometimes it takes a lot of time, prayer, and watching to see what kind of spirit it is.   If it is not of God, they are proclaiming a false gospel.  When you submit yourself to their teachings and follow them, you are in essence taking on that false spirit and operating in it.

I believe that people who are under this kind of spirit, unknowingly, have the opportunity to hear the truth.  Most will reject the truth, because they believe the lies in their hearts.  God is not a God of spiritual manifestations.  Yet this venue makes it the basic premise of salvation.  The more manifestations - whether it be healing, casting out demons, tongues, or getting "slain in the spirit", laughing, dancing, jerking, feelings of fire, etc ad nauseum  -  are to soothe, titillate, and excite the flesh.  You are taught that the more you "feel", the closer to God you are.

Jesus said, Blessed are those who believe but do not see.  Faith in Him is the foundation of salvation, not seeing, feeling, falling, and the host of other manifestations that satan is using to get people into major deception.

The kind of "salvation" that is dependant on manifestations and false doctrine/theology is not "knowing" Jesus. It is another gospel.  Therefore, He will say to those people - get away from Me, I never knew you.

shalom, nana

Points taken.   My problem is in kicking against the system and ending up stubbing my toe on a huge immoveable rock.

I don't think there is any greater oxymoron in all of history. A season that has nothing to do with Jesus is forced into a season that has everything to do with Him.

It is true that God will prick the consciences to give at Christmas. The plans of man [with a little bit of help from the god of this world] are no stumbling block for the Almighty. He does use our puny efforts in spite of us and not because of us. But then, He is a God of grace and mercy. And people will always continue to do that which feels good, whether or not it is based in the truth.

It's just too bad that the majority can't be obedient year around.

One more comment, lest anyone think I am a total Scrooge when it comes to Christmas. I guess I could compare it to a roller coaster ride. The upside is that I can use the system to reach people in a way that is usually shut off. I will send cards and do the gift thing to open a way to show the love of Jesus Christ.

The down side is the hype and the pressure to conform to a season whose traditions are based in magic, mysticism, and folklore.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.