ChristiansUnite Forums

read matthew 15:14?

we wouldnt chase after a mechanic expert to be a chef would we? somehow this is the mentality of thinking with christian doctrine.

whats  christian doctrine if there are gray area bible topics to do as you please and you all right?

anybody else feel some radical conviction like Martin Luther King?

The problems the Lord exposed during His First Advent included those of the religious leaders of His people the Jews. Essentially, they had mad up "fence laws" according to their own thinking and had departed from what the scriptures revealed and actually taught. They had become "traditions" of men and the religious leaders had placed "yokes of bondage" around the necks of God's people.

Sound familiar? It should as today legalism abounds as proud religious people seek salvation "by works."

aw

I’m taking the opposite view Aw is. I don’t think the problem we the Leaders followed the law, it was that they obeyed the law, but didn’t understand WHY. They where following the letter of the law, which his worthless if we do not grasp the Spirit of the law. They would fast, and show off there fasting, and that clearly shows they did not understand what fasting is about. They would “strain out gnats and shallow camels” as Jesus put it. They where so meticulous in following they letter of the law, so hung up on the words, they didn’t care what they reason for the law was.

Back to the topic at hand, I think this is why there needs to be a strong, structured Church Government, Locally, nationally, and internationally. So we know who to follow. And if the people leading isn’t doing right, instead of splitting the church, we can call the man above him to stop him. I think you all know what I’m hitting at here, but I honestly believe the Church needs a strong system like this for the very reason tony stated. Who do we follow? Good question, a question that can be answered by this structure.

Can you clarify you last statement on Marten Luther King?

Oklahoma Howdy to Brothers Aw and Tibby,

I'll offer a third opinion. You are both being reeled in by someone who wishes to sell you a book from the so-called Bible Expert. Thus, the analogy in the original of looking for a chef to be a mechanic expert. The sales pitch will be sprung on you soon. I guess that advertising is hard to come by these days.

In Christ,
Tom

That is a possibility. But, if we are both wrong, and blinded by the money gabbers in the back room, then the original question of "what is good" still remains...

Oklahoma Howdy to Tibby,

Look at the profile and you will see the link to the "Bible Expert". The original question and title is somewhat strange.

In Christ,
Tom

Ahhh, now I get what you are saying. Nice little bit of Gnosticism he has on his profile.

Oklahoma Howdy to Tibby,

Brother, I'm not sure what the guy is saying, but I did visit the web site.

I'm thinking about writing a book on Olympics - "How To Be A Javelin Catcher".   ;D Would you consider being my agent and paying for the publishing costs?   ;D

In Christ,
Tom

Matthew 15:14 is speaking about "blind leaders of the blind", and spiritual blindness only exists in those who are not saved.  So this Scripture really has nothing to do with what you are talking about, neither does Martin Luther King Jr.

However, if you are suggesting that Christians need to follow some "guru" who has all the answers, note well that  Scripture teaches that every believer has a Divine Teacher -- the Holy Spirit -- and can and will be taught by God Himself.

That does not mean that we do not need pastors, teachers and evangelists in our midst.  They are given to the Church to help believers grow into spiritual maturity. What it does mean is that we do not need to follow any man, but follow the Lord Himself.

Thanks for the tips and time saver. HOWEVER, while we are here, Jesus did spend around 1/3 of His earthly ministry rebuking, correcting, and teaching the Jewsih religious leaders.

aw

BEP-Go for it! I’d buy a copy. ;D

Sower- Amen, well said!!!!!!!!!! :)

Aw- I wouldn’t say 3/1 He spent more time with his Disciples, teaching them how to live. Jesus said what he had to about the things wrong with the system, but he came here the build the Church (and die for our sins, of course), not tear down the world.  

I'm sure mechanics probably get hungry and need to fix themselves some food once in a while.
Christian doctrine should be of Christ.

Are you sure the gray areas are Christ's doctrine. If so how can they be gray? Salvation through Christ seems crystal clear not gray.

Another human being like the rest of us.

What came first, the Christ or the Church?

The Christ.

And had the Christ not come, would the church have been built?

No.

The church are the called of God out of the world and into God's Son according to God's purpose.
What calls? The gospel of Jesus Christ.
What came first? God's purpose.

I had a friend owned a Javelin.  Best car AMC ever made.  If you can catch those I am impressed.   ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to michael_legna,

 :D  I remember the AMC Javelin. However, I was never able to catch one of those. I did catch a Desota one time. I think that's how they spelled the name of the car company. Anyone remember those?

Tom

You're showin' yer age, there Mr. Bep, sir.  You might ask Mick - isn't he the second oldest on this site?? (He-he-he)


Actually, my grandparents used to drive a Desota (or was that Desoto?) - they lived in Elmore City (that would be about 20 miles south of Paul's Valley - and that would be in Oklahoma).  That would have been in the early to mid 1960's - and the car was old even then.  They used to make the 300 mile drive from there to our ranch near Amarillo every Memorial Day, and that old car never let 'em down.


There you go ticklin' my memory gland, Mr. Bep.  :)

Oklahoma Howdy to JudgeNot,

 :D  Desoto - I think you are right. I thought it was a great car, but they went out of business for some reason. The same was true of the Hudson.

Reference Paul's Valley, I've been there many times and think it is a pretty place. My dad was a circuit preacher for 8 years before settling into a church in Lawton, and Paul's Valley was one of the regular places we went.

It's a small world.

In Christ,
Tom

Yes, Sir - it is.  My grandfolks were "Hardshell" Baptist.  I'm not sure they ever went to a Sunday service that wasn't in a tent.  They would drive 50 to 100 miles every Sunday just to find that tent.

Are there any 'Hardshell' Baptists left?

LOL brother - what memories!

Oklahoma Howdy to JudgeNot,

Brother, I'll have to admit that I've led a fairly sheltered life in terms of church services. I really don't know much about denominations. I've always attended tiny churches with an address or a location for a name. My dad held services on street corners, tents, barns, homes, back yards, school buildings, and wherever folks invited him to come. I guess the closest description we could come up with would be "Grace Bible Church." My dad passed away, but the little church is still thriving.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Tom,

What your reply says is a telling of a part of Americana that has disappeared for the most part. How wonderful that you had the opportunity to grow up in that atmosphere. That is so great.

Thanks for relating that, I enjoyed it immensely. We do not realize in the 21st century all these wonderful little happenings, and perhaps they were not so little, that went on in the America of the past.
 

Ollie

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

Brother, you are most welcome.

I'll try to post some additional true life stories soon. Most of the best stories I remember were about very plain, hard working country folks who had little or nothing. Some of the stories were funny and some were sad. I have to say that of all the people I've met in my life that I respected those poor and hard working country folks the most. Many of them were very poor, but in the things that really mattered, they were rich.

I'll try to post some the first chance I get.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I asked my grandfather last month about his church background...

His words: "I used to say I was a Baptist [no slur on Baptists here!] but now I just say, 'I'm a Christian'..." He grew up in a little Oklahoma town where the only church around was Baptist, and he didn't even realize there were other denominations, or at least didn't think about it.

Oklahoma Howdy to Willowbirch,

I don't think that what I'm about to say applies only to Oklahoma. There are a lot of small rural churches who haven't had regular pastors in years. Some of them may only be used several times a year when they can get a modern day version of a circuit preacher or a temporary preacher for a revival. The name over the door of many rural churches doesn't mean a thing.

One of the first churches my dad preached at regularly was a tiny church built in the middle of a pasture that might have 50 seats. That was 1942 (?), and the owner of the farm provided room and board on every visit. Mom and dad lived in Fort Worth, Texas at the time and they might come for 1 Sunday or several Sundays at a time. Dad eventually was a fairly regular preacher for 38 rural communities in Oklahoma. There was a common denominator, most of the communities were very poor. Dad never asked for money or passed an offering plate, even after getting the permanent church built in Lawton. I remember traveling home from rural church services with live chickens in the car that someone gave dad for an offering.   :D  Many others gave fruits and vegetables. Here's one funny about an elderly gentleman I dearly loved. He wrung and plucked a chicken once and mailed it to us. Needless to say, the box was obviously leaking and smelled real bad when we got it.   ;D

Love In Christ,
Tom

LOL! are you sure he was trying to say he loved you too?  ;)

I don't like the term "following" except as it apply`s to our relationship to Christ.  :-X

Oklahoma Howdy to Shylynne,

 :D  Reference the elderly man mailing us a plucked chicken, I know he loved us and we loved him. Bless his heart, he's home with the Lord and he was one of a kind.

Reference the term "following", I understand and agree. I think the one who started this thread wants to sell you a book, something about him being a Bible expert. I'm sure that such a humble proclamation up front will help him sell a ton of books.   :D

Love In Christ,
Tom

Im more concern about falling in a ditch with a infidel leader thats blind. The money crooks will eventually be on the news
and jailed. Matthew 15:14. What's really at stake? Your money or your soul?

He wrung and plucked a chicken once and mailed it to us

Hey I can do that!  :D

Psa 73:28  But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works!

Oklahoma Howdy to Shylynne,

 ;D   ;D  Oh, that would be so nice of you, especially if you wait a couple of weeks and the temperature gets up over a 100 here. Send it the slowest way possible:


I've got it, just let it walk here alive.   ;D

 one canuck plucked chicken strutting down the backroads to the border crossing as we speak

 


oh my! ROFL!

*plugs nose*  :-X