i never suggested that some of the apostles were not married. All i am saying is that god does not intend for priest to be married because if he did then they would be.

Excuse me, but where in the Bible does it say that God does not intend for priests to be married?  This is out of topic, by the way, but God always intended man to have the woman as a 'helpmate'.  Of course a man may choose to be unmarried but with sadly with the catholic church, i know for a fact that being unmarried is not by choice, it is a doctrine of the Roman Catholic church that a priest HAS to be unmarried.  "But a priest has a choice", one will say.  Does he?  Will the Roman Catholic church ordain you as a priest if you are married? No, thereby it is not a choice but a doctrine that priests are forbidden to marry.  Incidentally, the only mention in the Bible about forbidding to marry is in Timothy, where 'some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils...forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats...'

Furthermore, the old order or priesthood has already been abolished, the old has been replaced with the new. 'For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.' 

''Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood..."

[BY GRACE]

Hi Tom,

I do believe we are saved BY GRACE, and GRACE ALONE, NOT BY WORKS.  But the Bible is also very clear about what is expected of us once we are saved.  In the verse in Ephesians 2 that you shared it is clear we are not saved 'as a result of works', but after receiving His salvation we should prove our faith by what we do for we are 'His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.'

The Bible clearly states, and I quote the NASB version that you shared, that 'no one will snatch them out of My hand'. 

True, no question there.  But what if that person chooses to go out of the Father's hand?  We all have been given free will, the choice of life and death, blessing and cursing.  I do believe a Christian is secure in Christ but the Bible does give conditions for remaining in His love. 'If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as i have kept my father's commandments, and abide in his love'.  'If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.' I don't think that the conditional security of the believer belittles God's mercy, the fact that He died for us 'while we were yet sinners' is proof enough of God's love for us but He is also a just God - He cannot condone sin.

'Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith, Be not high-minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.'

I would like to clear up your statement about my saying God will break His promise.  I claim no such thing and I would like to point to my preceding posts that I said no such thing.  True, God has promised salvation to those who believe - but He has also given His word about what will happen to those who don't believe or forsake Him.  He cannot break those promises too.  He clearly states in His Word what He will do to those believers who make a choice to forsake Him and to those who don't listen to His Word - those are promises that He cannot break.  The Bible reiterates that salvation is for those who believe, for those who love Him - and the Bible is clear that to love Him and to believe in Him is to obey Him. You're right, God has never and will never break a single promise to His Children - just don't forget that He always gives us two choices.  If we choose His righteousness He has a promise for that, and if we choose to do evil even after we have received Him God also made a promise about that - and remember, you yourself stated, and rightly so, that 'ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN CAUSE GOD TO BREAK A SINGLE ONE OF THE PROMISES THAT HE MAKES TO HIS CHILDREN'.

'And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.
He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.'

'They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation' - Yes, we did not receive salvation because of works but He did give a condition that once we receive Him we should obey Him. 'And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?'

His sacrifice is so precious and so sacred that when we sin wilfully we are treading 'under foot the Son of God' and counting 'the blood of the covenant' wherewith we have been sanctified, 'an unholy thing' and are doing 'despite unto the Spirit of Grace'.

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?  God forbid, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?'

'What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.'

Being under grace does not give us a license to sin - our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has also given a promise about what He will do to those who continue in Sin or go back to sin despite having tasted of the heavenly gift.

'For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.  They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.  Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered His people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.'

'But if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.' - We all know what the portion of the unbelievers is.

And take Matthew 22 verse 1-14 for example.  The wedding parable is about God's invitation to salvation.  The guests are those who accepted His invitation. But when you accept the invitation, you are suposed to take of your old nature and clothe yourself with His righteousness. 'And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:   (Romans13:13-14 has something about clothing ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ)
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen.'

He is a merciful and loving God - but He is also a just and fearful God.  Time and again, He destroyed those of His chosen people who did not believe. 'Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted...Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents...Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.'

As I stated at the start, Salvation is by grace and grace alone - ABSOLUTELY NOT of works. But we need to remember that Christ died to save us from sin - to continue in sin after receiving Him and to claim that a person is still saved is a claim the Bible clearly and explicitly repiudates.  It's tantamount to saying that God condones sin - it totally defeats the purpose of His sacrifice on the cross.  Yes, NOBODY can ever claim to be without sin but God has laid down the sins that are unto death.  Sins that NO ONE who does them, saved or not, could ever inherit HIS kingdom.  Those are the WILFULL SINS. When you snap at someone, or say something wrong, or lose your temper - those aren't premeditated sins, not wilfull sins.  'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication...Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred...murders, drunkenness...and such like" of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.' When a Christian commits adultery or fornication those are sins where he or she has to make a conscious decision to sin - to trample on His death and insult the Spirit of grace.  That is wilfull - one cannot say, oh, I just stumbled and next thing I knew this girl was right there. The problem I have with the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (aside from the fact that there is absolutely no verse in the Bible that says that) is because many of its proponents actually claim that even if you die while commiting adultery, if you commit suicide, if you die in the act of fornication, if you had accepted Christ before you are still saved.  That is not grace but a disgrace.  Where is the purity of Christian life? How are we different from the world if Christ has no standards? 

'Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?' 'What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?'  - It is very clear that His Spirit will never be one with an harlot so the moment a Christian commits that sin the Spirit will surely leave that person and we know that anyone who dies WITHOUT the Spirit has no seal because the Spirit is the seal.  Or are we to believe that the HOLY SPIRIT (I believe we all know what HOLY means) will continue to stay in a person while that very same person is commiting a sin unto death and actUally 'insulting the SPIRIT OF GRACE'?

I know a few that do, tell the truth. Course these are home style Churches, like what I belong to.

GKB, I will pray for you, that the Lord leads you in the direction he desires.

Our fellowship is also home style and the Lord has ALWAYS provided for all our needs.  We never practice tithing but we do practice giving - those who have more of something give to those brethren who lack and whatever the need of any member the Lord always touches each member who can answer that need.  None of us are ever burdened and we all give to those who need according as we 'purpose' in our heart. 

'For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye be burdened:
But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.'

[Confront]

The first thing you should do is pray about. Ask God for guidance...  If you read the Bible, what you do here is be bold... Tell what is wrong because as i see it people in your Church have been blinded.  Confront if you need to; but, if you do you have to have a fellow Christian who stand in the thruth.

I forgot the exact verse where Paul confront the church where there is an adultery going on.  If your church will not face the problem it has; the punishment of God may be felt by all.

I think you mean 1 Corinthians 5.  The qualifications are all in the Bible, take 1 Timothy 3 for example.  'One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with alll gravity:
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?).

And in Titus 1, 'If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having FAITHFUL CHILDREN not accused of riot or unruly.'

[I might add that there is a definite and quite Biblical answer, and we are definitely talking about a time under the Law - before the CROSS. Let me add one more thought and fact to help you out some: David was a man after God's own heart.]

Hello Dandirom,

Maybe we are on two sheets of music, or maybe we just disagree. I suspect that we disagree. If so, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Let's find out if we are on two sheets of music or if we will have to agree to disagree.

1 - Are you saying that a born again Christian loses Salvation if they commit a sin, intentional or otherwise?  Yes or No

Let me also give you a little bit of food for thought that you can use for future Bible studies. There is a huge difference between physical death and God condemning someone to hell. David clearly lived under the Law, and he committed adultery intentionally. David was not physically put to death under the Law. Now, here's a harder question that will require considerable thought: David committed a sin unto death, so was David lost when he did physically die?  If so - why?  If not - why? I might add that there is a definite and quite Biblical answer, and we are definitely talking about a time under the Law - before the CROSS. Let me add one more thought and fact to help you out some: David was a man after God's own heart.

Hi Tom,

You're right, when David commited those sins, Christ still had not given the ultimate sacrifice - which is what makes the author of Hebrews state in 10:28
'He that despised Moses' law died without mercy, under two or three witnessess:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted th blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite (insulted, in NIV) unto the Spirit of Grace?'

And in Hebrews6:4-8 'If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God AFRESH, and put him to an open shame.'

As to your question about my post, yes, it is entirely possible according to the Bible for a Christian to lose his or her salvation if he or she commits a sin unto death. 

David himself knew that fact - 'Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation...'

["washing of regeneration (new birth) and renewing of the Holy Ghost"]

Pilgrim is correct. Throughout the NT, the New Birth (being born again) is accompanied by gift of the Holy Spirit, and indeed is due to the "washing of regeneration (new birth) and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5). Water baptism follows the New Birth, but is not responsbile for it.

Many have misunderstood the teaching of Christ which says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (Jn. 3:5). As we study the NT Scriptures, we discover that "water" and "seed" are just two metaphors for the Gospel or the Word of God (Eph. 5:26; Jas. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23). So what Christ said in reality that "Except a man be born of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God".

How does the Gospel become the seed of salvation? "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Rom. 10:17).

Thus in order to have saving faith one must hear or read the Gospel, and as the Gospel penetrates into our innermost being --  "to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit" (Heb. 4:12,13) -- the Holy Spirit convicts us and convinces us. That is the only way that a sinner can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, for "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek [Gentile]" (Rom. 1:16).

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ leads to being regenerated while receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, since "as many as received Him, to them gave He the power [authority] to become sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:12,13).

As to what it "means" to be born-again, the best description in the Bible is that of becoming "a new creature" or "a new creation in Christ", where old things have passed away, and all things have become new (2 Cor. 5:17).

Amen.
 
'If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former converstion the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.' 

'Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD OF GOD, which liveth and bideth for ever.'

'John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose; he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire...' 

'Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life...'

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'

Blademan,

I must agree with this totally. A house of worship need not be lined with gold, silver and crystal. That money would be better spent on helping the poor which is commanded of us to do in the NT even after the law.

Exactly. And the ever increasing claim of many but not all tithing proponents that 'God cannot move if we don't give to the church' is in itself blasphemous.  'God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things...' Any True Christian has an obligation to give to those in need - especially to believers in need - and if you are a True Christian, it won't be out of compulsion but cheerfully.  10%, 25% 50%, Everything - if it is in your heart to give then do so.  It is a pity though that many churches use tithing as an excuse to get money from the congregation - even when it is not needed. 

Hey GKB I am not at all offended and I apologize if it seemed that way.  Yes, God does provide for us as we walk in faith.  We are actually constructing a new building which has taken 2 years so far.  It would normally have been completed in 6 months but the Lord is teaching us faith.    How does the pastor live when the wages are so small?  Faith!  God keeps on providing in miraculous ways, the same as he keeps healing people in this church.  They can't afford doctors!  We just lay hands believe and they walk away healed.    We claim Psalm 23 The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not need.   I do not believe that tithing is new testament teaching by the way, because we ourselves are the Royal Priests!!   But we give generously out of love to the one who feeds the flock.

Yes, we are the priests now according to 1Peter2. In Hebrews 7 it is also very clear that there is a change of priesthood, hence a change or the law.  The old has gone - obsolete, the new has come.  We can give more or less than 10% - as our heart purposes, not out of compulsion.  Besides, in the tithing law - if we go back to the old testament, tithes were only given once every three years.

Actually, the Bible states that no man has as yet 'Ascended into heaven' - being in Christ means living in His Word.  In Hebrews 11:39-40 it states that 'And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promises:  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.'  Bear in mind that he is talking about the patriarchs. The Bible also states that we will see Him in His glory at the same time - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

Hello there. Actually, we are under grace NOW but that does not mean we have a license to sin. The sins 'unto death' stated in Galatians were written to Christians who are NOT under the law - anyone who commits those sins cannot inherit His kingdom.  One cannot draw near to God while commiting adultery, fornication, Idolatry, etc. In Hebrews the contrasts between the law before its relationship to us now are very clear - the old has gone the new is come.  But in Hebrews 10:26-31 it is clear that the author is talking about those who are NOT under the law - in 28 he says, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?  God forbid...Romans6

AMEN SINCEREHEART,

Sister,

The children of God have divisions in this short life on earth because of man's organizations, labels, tags, and denominations. There are no such things in the BODY OF CHRIST. It is interesting that we will be united together with JESUS for eternity, but we do have trouble loving each other in this short life.

'And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat; for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.  For ye are yet carnal; for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?  Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?  I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase...For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's hubandry, ye ar God's building.'  1Corinthians3

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," ~Hebrews 10:26

Quite frankly, this Bible verse scares me.

Now I am a christian. However, I know that I have sinned after becoming a christian, and some of those sins have been done willingly (in that, I knew that it was wrong, but I did it anyway). There's also a sin, that I'd rather not mention, that I am now habitually doing. I'm trying to stop doing it, but I keep falling back into it. I have asked for forgiveness of these sins everytime that I do them, but has God forgiven me? If Hebrews 10:26 is interpretted at face value, it would seem that He has not...

'If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life.  I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.  There is a sin that leads to death.  I am not saying that he should pray about that.  All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death...'  1Jn5:7

'The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, ealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.  I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.'  Gal5:19-21

Those are the sins unto death that you can't do unless you make a conscious decision to do them, hence 'sin wilfully.  The Bible is clear that ANYONE who does those sins mentioned CANNOT inherit His kingdom.